I've worked out the reasoning, but how do I write the proof?Advice for a newly minted math majorHow to write well in analysis (calculus)?Formal expression for a proofWhy do we choose |x+5|=10 in the following proof of quadratic limit?Using Squeeze Theorem to prove two sequences converge to same limitHow should I make my proof about the sum of all parts of a number?Prove if $lim_xto c f'(x) = K$ then $f'(c) = K$Big O notation True or FalseWhere is the flaw in this “proof” of the Collatz Conjecture?How to prove this delta-epsilon proof involving $x^2$?
How can a function with a hole (removable discontinuity) equal a function with no hole?
Crossing the line between justified force and brutality
You cannot touch me, but I can touch you, who am I?
Where does the Z80 processor start executing from?
How can I kill an app using Terminal?
Tiptoe or tiphoof? Adjusting words to better fit fantasy races
India just shot down a satellite from the ground. At what altitude range is the resulting debris field?
Short story about space worker geeks who zone out by 'listening' to radiation from stars
Pole-zeros of a real-valued causal FIR system
What is the best translation for "slot" in the context of multiplayer video games?
How does the UK government determine the size of a mandate?
How do scammers retract money, while you can’t?
How to run a prison with the smallest amount of guards?
Opposite of a diet
Purchasing a ticket for someone else in another country?
Different result between scanning in Epson's "color negative film" mode and scanning in positive -> invert curve in post?
Hostile work environment after whistle-blowing on coworker and our boss. What do I do?
How did Arya survive the stabbing?
How to pronounce the slash sign
Anatomically Correct Strange Women In Ponds Distributing Swords
Trouble understanding the speech of overseas colleagues
Was Spock the First Vulcan in Starfleet?
How can we prove that any integral in the set of non-elementary integrals cannot be expressed in the form of elementary functions?
What does the word "Atten" mean?
I've worked out the reasoning, but how do I write the proof?
Advice for a newly minted math majorHow to write well in analysis (calculus)?Formal expression for a proofWhy do we choose |x+5|=10 in the following proof of quadratic limit?Using Squeeze Theorem to prove two sequences converge to same limitHow should I make my proof about the sum of all parts of a number?Prove if $lim_xto c f'(x) = K$ then $f'(c) = K$Big O notation True or FalseWhere is the flaw in this “proof” of the Collatz Conjecture?How to prove this delta-epsilon proof involving $x^2$?
$begingroup$
This started our with a pretty trivial problem that went:
Fill in the blanks with whole numbers to make mathematically true statements. Do not use the same number twice within a statement.$$frac*4+frac1*=frac*20$$
Now solutions were pretty easy, so I decided to change the problem and asked myself what solutions could be made when I must use a number twice. Solutions were easy for this format $$fraca4+frac1a=fracb20$$ where $ane b$. But are there any solutions for the following format?
$$fracb4+frac1a=fraca20$$
To determine if there were any, I firstly rearranged the equation into a quadratic form, i.e.$$0=a^2-5ba+20$$ which yields solutions if $$a=frac5bpmsqrt25b^2-802$$Now this can only satisfy the condition of "whole numbers" if $sqrt25b^2-80$ is a whole number. (Even then there is more that needs to be satisfied, so this is a minimal condition.) At this point, I didn't know how to prove this formally, so I decided to use excel to determine $25b^2-80$ for different values of b, and then use the vlookup function to find the nearest square, $n^2$, below that value. I then subtracted these two values because I figured that I was looking for any instances where $$delta=25b^2-80-n^2equiv0$$ Now I didn't find any, however, I found an unexpected pattern for the difference, $delta$ given b=2, 3, ...
The value of $$delta = (4, 1, 31, 16, 36, 56, 76, 9, 19, 29, 39, ...)$$ That is, for $b>8$, $$delta =10(b-8)+9$$
I therefore have two questions. Why did this pattern emerge for $delta$? And how do you formally write this reasoning, which does show that no value of "$a$" exists that is a whole number?
proof-writing
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This started our with a pretty trivial problem that went:
Fill in the blanks with whole numbers to make mathematically true statements. Do not use the same number twice within a statement.$$frac*4+frac1*=frac*20$$
Now solutions were pretty easy, so I decided to change the problem and asked myself what solutions could be made when I must use a number twice. Solutions were easy for this format $$fraca4+frac1a=fracb20$$ where $ane b$. But are there any solutions for the following format?
$$fracb4+frac1a=fraca20$$
To determine if there were any, I firstly rearranged the equation into a quadratic form, i.e.$$0=a^2-5ba+20$$ which yields solutions if $$a=frac5bpmsqrt25b^2-802$$Now this can only satisfy the condition of "whole numbers" if $sqrt25b^2-80$ is a whole number. (Even then there is more that needs to be satisfied, so this is a minimal condition.) At this point, I didn't know how to prove this formally, so I decided to use excel to determine $25b^2-80$ for different values of b, and then use the vlookup function to find the nearest square, $n^2$, below that value. I then subtracted these two values because I figured that I was looking for any instances where $$delta=25b^2-80-n^2equiv0$$ Now I didn't find any, however, I found an unexpected pattern for the difference, $delta$ given b=2, 3, ...
The value of $$delta = (4, 1, 31, 16, 36, 56, 76, 9, 19, 29, 39, ...)$$ That is, for $b>8$, $$delta =10(b-8)+9$$
I therefore have two questions. Why did this pattern emerge for $delta$? And how do you formally write this reasoning, which does show that no value of "$a$" exists that is a whole number?
proof-writing
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
What were your $n$ value(s) in generating $delta$?
$endgroup$
– Eevee Trainer
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
You can also use the rational root theorem to restrict the possible solutions: If $0=a^2-5ba+20$ with integers $a,b$ then $a$ must be a divisor of $20$.
$endgroup$
– Martin R
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't it $a^2 - 5ab - 20 = 0$??
$endgroup$
– Balakrishnan Rajan
17 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you write a more descriptive/informative title?
$endgroup$
– YuiTo Cheng
15 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This started our with a pretty trivial problem that went:
Fill in the blanks with whole numbers to make mathematically true statements. Do not use the same number twice within a statement.$$frac*4+frac1*=frac*20$$
Now solutions were pretty easy, so I decided to change the problem and asked myself what solutions could be made when I must use a number twice. Solutions were easy for this format $$fraca4+frac1a=fracb20$$ where $ane b$. But are there any solutions for the following format?
$$fracb4+frac1a=fraca20$$
To determine if there were any, I firstly rearranged the equation into a quadratic form, i.e.$$0=a^2-5ba+20$$ which yields solutions if $$a=frac5bpmsqrt25b^2-802$$Now this can only satisfy the condition of "whole numbers" if $sqrt25b^2-80$ is a whole number. (Even then there is more that needs to be satisfied, so this is a minimal condition.) At this point, I didn't know how to prove this formally, so I decided to use excel to determine $25b^2-80$ for different values of b, and then use the vlookup function to find the nearest square, $n^2$, below that value. I then subtracted these two values because I figured that I was looking for any instances where $$delta=25b^2-80-n^2equiv0$$ Now I didn't find any, however, I found an unexpected pattern for the difference, $delta$ given b=2, 3, ...
The value of $$delta = (4, 1, 31, 16, 36, 56, 76, 9, 19, 29, 39, ...)$$ That is, for $b>8$, $$delta =10(b-8)+9$$
I therefore have two questions. Why did this pattern emerge for $delta$? And how do you formally write this reasoning, which does show that no value of "$a$" exists that is a whole number?
proof-writing
$endgroup$
This started our with a pretty trivial problem that went:
Fill in the blanks with whole numbers to make mathematically true statements. Do not use the same number twice within a statement.$$frac*4+frac1*=frac*20$$
Now solutions were pretty easy, so I decided to change the problem and asked myself what solutions could be made when I must use a number twice. Solutions were easy for this format $$fraca4+frac1a=fracb20$$ where $ane b$. But are there any solutions for the following format?
$$fracb4+frac1a=fraca20$$
To determine if there were any, I firstly rearranged the equation into a quadratic form, i.e.$$0=a^2-5ba+20$$ which yields solutions if $$a=frac5bpmsqrt25b^2-802$$Now this can only satisfy the condition of "whole numbers" if $sqrt25b^2-80$ is a whole number. (Even then there is more that needs to be satisfied, so this is a minimal condition.) At this point, I didn't know how to prove this formally, so I decided to use excel to determine $25b^2-80$ for different values of b, and then use the vlookup function to find the nearest square, $n^2$, below that value. I then subtracted these two values because I figured that I was looking for any instances where $$delta=25b^2-80-n^2equiv0$$ Now I didn't find any, however, I found an unexpected pattern for the difference, $delta$ given b=2, 3, ...
The value of $$delta = (4, 1, 31, 16, 36, 56, 76, 9, 19, 29, 39, ...)$$ That is, for $b>8$, $$delta =10(b-8)+9$$
I therefore have two questions. Why did this pattern emerge for $delta$? And how do you formally write this reasoning, which does show that no value of "$a$" exists that is a whole number?
proof-writing
proof-writing
asked 18 hours ago
BrendanBrendan
462
462
$begingroup$
What were your $n$ value(s) in generating $delta$?
$endgroup$
– Eevee Trainer
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
You can also use the rational root theorem to restrict the possible solutions: If $0=a^2-5ba+20$ with integers $a,b$ then $a$ must be a divisor of $20$.
$endgroup$
– Martin R
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't it $a^2 - 5ab - 20 = 0$??
$endgroup$
– Balakrishnan Rajan
17 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you write a more descriptive/informative title?
$endgroup$
– YuiTo Cheng
15 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What were your $n$ value(s) in generating $delta$?
$endgroup$
– Eevee Trainer
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
You can also use the rational root theorem to restrict the possible solutions: If $0=a^2-5ba+20$ with integers $a,b$ then $a$ must be a divisor of $20$.
$endgroup$
– Martin R
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't it $a^2 - 5ab - 20 = 0$??
$endgroup$
– Balakrishnan Rajan
17 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you write a more descriptive/informative title?
$endgroup$
– YuiTo Cheng
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
What were your $n$ value(s) in generating $delta$?
$endgroup$
– Eevee Trainer
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
What were your $n$ value(s) in generating $delta$?
$endgroup$
– Eevee Trainer
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
You can also use the rational root theorem to restrict the possible solutions: If $0=a^2-5ba+20$ with integers $a,b$ then $a$ must be a divisor of $20$.
$endgroup$
– Martin R
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
You can also use the rational root theorem to restrict the possible solutions: If $0=a^2-5ba+20$ with integers $a,b$ then $a$ must be a divisor of $20$.
$endgroup$
– Martin R
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't it $a^2 - 5ab - 20 = 0$??
$endgroup$
– Balakrishnan Rajan
17 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't it $a^2 - 5ab - 20 = 0$??
$endgroup$
– Balakrishnan Rajan
17 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you write a more descriptive/informative title?
$endgroup$
– YuiTo Cheng
15 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you write a more descriptive/informative title?
$endgroup$
– YuiTo Cheng
15 hours ago
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You have several choices already for the proof, so I'll focus on the pattern of values of $delta.$
I think this is easier to reason about if we write the expression under the radical as $(5b)^2 - 80.$
In order for the radical to be a whole number, then,
we would need the difference between two squares to be $80,$
where one of the squares is a square of a multiple of $5.$
For small values of $b$ there can be one or more squares strictly between
$(5b)^2 - 80$ and $(5b)^2,$
so $delta$ ends up being the difference between $(5b)^2$ and $(5b - n)^2$
where $n geq 2.$ But
$$ (5b)^2 - (5b - 1)^2 = (5b)^2 - ((5b)^2 - 2(5b) + 1) = 10b - 1, $$
so if $b geq 9$ then the difference between $(5b)^2$ and the next smaller square is at least $89,$ which is greater than $80.$
Hence there are no squares at all in the numbers from $(5b)^2 - 80$ to $(5b)^2$
(other than $(5b)^2$ itself), so $delta$ is just the difference between
$(5b)^2 - 80$ and the next smaller square, which is $(5b - 1)^2$:
beginalign
delta &= ((5b)^2 - 80) - (5b - 1)^2 \
&= (10b - 1) - 80 \
&= 10(b - 8) - 1\
&= 10(b - 9) + 9.
endalign
(Note that this is slightly different from the formula written in the question.)
By the way, since we found while doing this that there are no squares at all in the numbers from $(5b)^2 - 80$ to $(5b)^2 - 1$ when $b geq 9,$
a corollary is that $(5b)^2 - 80$ is not a square, so after checking each case where $b < 9$ individually, you have shown that $(5b)^2 - 80$ cannot be a square.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks to everyone who answered. I chose this answer for two reasons: Firstly it explained the emergence of the pattern behind $delta$, and secondly, it followed the original reasoning, which was what I requested.
$endgroup$
– Brendan
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that $$bover 4+1over a=aover 20implies a^2=5ab+20implies a|20 , 5|a$$so all the possible cases are $$ain -20,-10,-5,5,10,20$$by a simple investigation, we conclude there are no integers $a,b$ such that $$bover 4+1over a=aover 20$$
P.S.
Generally, all the answers to the equation $$aover 4+1over b=cover 20$$are as follows$$(a,b,c)=left(a,b,5a+20over bright)$$with any arbitrary $ain Bbb Z$ and $b|20$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that $sqrt25b^2 - 80 $ is a whole number if and only if $25b^2 - 80$ is a square. This gives the equation
$$ 25b^2 - 80 = a^2 implies a^2-25b^2 = 80 implies a^2-(5b)^2 = 80$$
This can be factored as
$$ (a-5b)(a+5b) = 80.$$
Using the prime factorization of $80 = 2^4 cdot 5$ and that $a$ and $b$ are whole numbers, this results in a number of equation systems of the form
$$ begincases a-5b = c_1 \ a+5b = c_2 endcases $$
where $c_1$ and $c_2$ are whole numbers such that $c_1 c_2 = 80$ (there are $20$ such systems: ten positive and ten negative).
Solving these will reduce your search to a finite number of possible solutions for $a$ and $b$, which you can sort out manually.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So you have,
$$
fracb4 + frac1a = fraca20
$$
This gives you,
$$
a^2 - 5ab - 20 = 0
$$
for $a$ and $b$ in $mathbbW$.
You are expressing $a$ in terms of $b$ as,
$$
a = frac5b pm sqrt25b^2+802
$$
Since you want to prove/disprove that $a$ and $b$ exist by checking whether the discriminant is whole. That is,
$$
sqrt25b^2+80 = n
$$
where $n in mathbbW$.
Or,
$$
b = fracsqrtn^2 - 805
$$
Now, if we were to check it case by case, it is impossible as all we know is that $n geq 9$ (for it to even be real).
There may however be other ways to prove the presence/absence of $a$ and $b$.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3164219%2five-worked-out-the-reasoning-but-how-do-i-write-the-proof%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You have several choices already for the proof, so I'll focus on the pattern of values of $delta.$
I think this is easier to reason about if we write the expression under the radical as $(5b)^2 - 80.$
In order for the radical to be a whole number, then,
we would need the difference between two squares to be $80,$
where one of the squares is a square of a multiple of $5.$
For small values of $b$ there can be one or more squares strictly between
$(5b)^2 - 80$ and $(5b)^2,$
so $delta$ ends up being the difference between $(5b)^2$ and $(5b - n)^2$
where $n geq 2.$ But
$$ (5b)^2 - (5b - 1)^2 = (5b)^2 - ((5b)^2 - 2(5b) + 1) = 10b - 1, $$
so if $b geq 9$ then the difference between $(5b)^2$ and the next smaller square is at least $89,$ which is greater than $80.$
Hence there are no squares at all in the numbers from $(5b)^2 - 80$ to $(5b)^2$
(other than $(5b)^2$ itself), so $delta$ is just the difference between
$(5b)^2 - 80$ and the next smaller square, which is $(5b - 1)^2$:
beginalign
delta &= ((5b)^2 - 80) - (5b - 1)^2 \
&= (10b - 1) - 80 \
&= 10(b - 8) - 1\
&= 10(b - 9) + 9.
endalign
(Note that this is slightly different from the formula written in the question.)
By the way, since we found while doing this that there are no squares at all in the numbers from $(5b)^2 - 80$ to $(5b)^2 - 1$ when $b geq 9,$
a corollary is that $(5b)^2 - 80$ is not a square, so after checking each case where $b < 9$ individually, you have shown that $(5b)^2 - 80$ cannot be a square.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks to everyone who answered. I chose this answer for two reasons: Firstly it explained the emergence of the pattern behind $delta$, and secondly, it followed the original reasoning, which was what I requested.
$endgroup$
– Brendan
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You have several choices already for the proof, so I'll focus on the pattern of values of $delta.$
I think this is easier to reason about if we write the expression under the radical as $(5b)^2 - 80.$
In order for the radical to be a whole number, then,
we would need the difference between two squares to be $80,$
where one of the squares is a square of a multiple of $5.$
For small values of $b$ there can be one or more squares strictly between
$(5b)^2 - 80$ and $(5b)^2,$
so $delta$ ends up being the difference between $(5b)^2$ and $(5b - n)^2$
where $n geq 2.$ But
$$ (5b)^2 - (5b - 1)^2 = (5b)^2 - ((5b)^2 - 2(5b) + 1) = 10b - 1, $$
so if $b geq 9$ then the difference between $(5b)^2$ and the next smaller square is at least $89,$ which is greater than $80.$
Hence there are no squares at all in the numbers from $(5b)^2 - 80$ to $(5b)^2$
(other than $(5b)^2$ itself), so $delta$ is just the difference between
$(5b)^2 - 80$ and the next smaller square, which is $(5b - 1)^2$:
beginalign
delta &= ((5b)^2 - 80) - (5b - 1)^2 \
&= (10b - 1) - 80 \
&= 10(b - 8) - 1\
&= 10(b - 9) + 9.
endalign
(Note that this is slightly different from the formula written in the question.)
By the way, since we found while doing this that there are no squares at all in the numbers from $(5b)^2 - 80$ to $(5b)^2 - 1$ when $b geq 9,$
a corollary is that $(5b)^2 - 80$ is not a square, so after checking each case where $b < 9$ individually, you have shown that $(5b)^2 - 80$ cannot be a square.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks to everyone who answered. I chose this answer for two reasons: Firstly it explained the emergence of the pattern behind $delta$, and secondly, it followed the original reasoning, which was what I requested.
$endgroup$
– Brendan
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You have several choices already for the proof, so I'll focus on the pattern of values of $delta.$
I think this is easier to reason about if we write the expression under the radical as $(5b)^2 - 80.$
In order for the radical to be a whole number, then,
we would need the difference between two squares to be $80,$
where one of the squares is a square of a multiple of $5.$
For small values of $b$ there can be one or more squares strictly between
$(5b)^2 - 80$ and $(5b)^2,$
so $delta$ ends up being the difference between $(5b)^2$ and $(5b - n)^2$
where $n geq 2.$ But
$$ (5b)^2 - (5b - 1)^2 = (5b)^2 - ((5b)^2 - 2(5b) + 1) = 10b - 1, $$
so if $b geq 9$ then the difference between $(5b)^2$ and the next smaller square is at least $89,$ which is greater than $80.$
Hence there are no squares at all in the numbers from $(5b)^2 - 80$ to $(5b)^2$
(other than $(5b)^2$ itself), so $delta$ is just the difference between
$(5b)^2 - 80$ and the next smaller square, which is $(5b - 1)^2$:
beginalign
delta &= ((5b)^2 - 80) - (5b - 1)^2 \
&= (10b - 1) - 80 \
&= 10(b - 8) - 1\
&= 10(b - 9) + 9.
endalign
(Note that this is slightly different from the formula written in the question.)
By the way, since we found while doing this that there are no squares at all in the numbers from $(5b)^2 - 80$ to $(5b)^2 - 1$ when $b geq 9,$
a corollary is that $(5b)^2 - 80$ is not a square, so after checking each case where $b < 9$ individually, you have shown that $(5b)^2 - 80$ cannot be a square.
$endgroup$
You have several choices already for the proof, so I'll focus on the pattern of values of $delta.$
I think this is easier to reason about if we write the expression under the radical as $(5b)^2 - 80.$
In order for the radical to be a whole number, then,
we would need the difference between two squares to be $80,$
where one of the squares is a square of a multiple of $5.$
For small values of $b$ there can be one or more squares strictly between
$(5b)^2 - 80$ and $(5b)^2,$
so $delta$ ends up being the difference between $(5b)^2$ and $(5b - n)^2$
where $n geq 2.$ But
$$ (5b)^2 - (5b - 1)^2 = (5b)^2 - ((5b)^2 - 2(5b) + 1) = 10b - 1, $$
so if $b geq 9$ then the difference between $(5b)^2$ and the next smaller square is at least $89,$ which is greater than $80.$
Hence there are no squares at all in the numbers from $(5b)^2 - 80$ to $(5b)^2$
(other than $(5b)^2$ itself), so $delta$ is just the difference between
$(5b)^2 - 80$ and the next smaller square, which is $(5b - 1)^2$:
beginalign
delta &= ((5b)^2 - 80) - (5b - 1)^2 \
&= (10b - 1) - 80 \
&= 10(b - 8) - 1\
&= 10(b - 9) + 9.
endalign
(Note that this is slightly different from the formula written in the question.)
By the way, since we found while doing this that there are no squares at all in the numbers from $(5b)^2 - 80$ to $(5b)^2 - 1$ when $b geq 9,$
a corollary is that $(5b)^2 - 80$ is not a square, so after checking each case where $b < 9$ individually, you have shown that $(5b)^2 - 80$ cannot be a square.
edited 14 hours ago
answered 14 hours ago
David KDavid K
55.4k344120
55.4k344120
$begingroup$
Thanks to everyone who answered. I chose this answer for two reasons: Firstly it explained the emergence of the pattern behind $delta$, and secondly, it followed the original reasoning, which was what I requested.
$endgroup$
– Brendan
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks to everyone who answered. I chose this answer for two reasons: Firstly it explained the emergence of the pattern behind $delta$, and secondly, it followed the original reasoning, which was what I requested.
$endgroup$
– Brendan
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks to everyone who answered. I chose this answer for two reasons: Firstly it explained the emergence of the pattern behind $delta$, and secondly, it followed the original reasoning, which was what I requested.
$endgroup$
– Brendan
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
Thanks to everyone who answered. I chose this answer for two reasons: Firstly it explained the emergence of the pattern behind $delta$, and secondly, it followed the original reasoning, which was what I requested.
$endgroup$
– Brendan
2 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that $$bover 4+1over a=aover 20implies a^2=5ab+20implies a|20 , 5|a$$so all the possible cases are $$ain -20,-10,-5,5,10,20$$by a simple investigation, we conclude there are no integers $a,b$ such that $$bover 4+1over a=aover 20$$
P.S.
Generally, all the answers to the equation $$aover 4+1over b=cover 20$$are as follows$$(a,b,c)=left(a,b,5a+20over bright)$$with any arbitrary $ain Bbb Z$ and $b|20$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that $$bover 4+1over a=aover 20implies a^2=5ab+20implies a|20 , 5|a$$so all the possible cases are $$ain -20,-10,-5,5,10,20$$by a simple investigation, we conclude there are no integers $a,b$ such that $$bover 4+1over a=aover 20$$
P.S.
Generally, all the answers to the equation $$aover 4+1over b=cover 20$$are as follows$$(a,b,c)=left(a,b,5a+20over bright)$$with any arbitrary $ain Bbb Z$ and $b|20$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that $$bover 4+1over a=aover 20implies a^2=5ab+20implies a|20 , 5|a$$so all the possible cases are $$ain -20,-10,-5,5,10,20$$by a simple investigation, we conclude there are no integers $a,b$ such that $$bover 4+1over a=aover 20$$
P.S.
Generally, all the answers to the equation $$aover 4+1over b=cover 20$$are as follows$$(a,b,c)=left(a,b,5a+20over bright)$$with any arbitrary $ain Bbb Z$ and $b|20$.
$endgroup$
Note that $$bover 4+1over a=aover 20implies a^2=5ab+20implies a|20 , 5|a$$so all the possible cases are $$ain -20,-10,-5,5,10,20$$by a simple investigation, we conclude there are no integers $a,b$ such that $$bover 4+1over a=aover 20$$
P.S.
Generally, all the answers to the equation $$aover 4+1over b=cover 20$$are as follows$$(a,b,c)=left(a,b,5a+20over bright)$$with any arbitrary $ain Bbb Z$ and $b|20$.
edited 17 hours ago
answered 17 hours ago
Mostafa AyazMostafa Ayaz
18.1k31040
18.1k31040
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that $sqrt25b^2 - 80 $ is a whole number if and only if $25b^2 - 80$ is a square. This gives the equation
$$ 25b^2 - 80 = a^2 implies a^2-25b^2 = 80 implies a^2-(5b)^2 = 80$$
This can be factored as
$$ (a-5b)(a+5b) = 80.$$
Using the prime factorization of $80 = 2^4 cdot 5$ and that $a$ and $b$ are whole numbers, this results in a number of equation systems of the form
$$ begincases a-5b = c_1 \ a+5b = c_2 endcases $$
where $c_1$ and $c_2$ are whole numbers such that $c_1 c_2 = 80$ (there are $20$ such systems: ten positive and ten negative).
Solving these will reduce your search to a finite number of possible solutions for $a$ and $b$, which you can sort out manually.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that $sqrt25b^2 - 80 $ is a whole number if and only if $25b^2 - 80$ is a square. This gives the equation
$$ 25b^2 - 80 = a^2 implies a^2-25b^2 = 80 implies a^2-(5b)^2 = 80$$
This can be factored as
$$ (a-5b)(a+5b) = 80.$$
Using the prime factorization of $80 = 2^4 cdot 5$ and that $a$ and $b$ are whole numbers, this results in a number of equation systems of the form
$$ begincases a-5b = c_1 \ a+5b = c_2 endcases $$
where $c_1$ and $c_2$ are whole numbers such that $c_1 c_2 = 80$ (there are $20$ such systems: ten positive and ten negative).
Solving these will reduce your search to a finite number of possible solutions for $a$ and $b$, which you can sort out manually.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that $sqrt25b^2 - 80 $ is a whole number if and only if $25b^2 - 80$ is a square. This gives the equation
$$ 25b^2 - 80 = a^2 implies a^2-25b^2 = 80 implies a^2-(5b)^2 = 80$$
This can be factored as
$$ (a-5b)(a+5b) = 80.$$
Using the prime factorization of $80 = 2^4 cdot 5$ and that $a$ and $b$ are whole numbers, this results in a number of equation systems of the form
$$ begincases a-5b = c_1 \ a+5b = c_2 endcases $$
where $c_1$ and $c_2$ are whole numbers such that $c_1 c_2 = 80$ (there are $20$ such systems: ten positive and ten negative).
Solving these will reduce your search to a finite number of possible solutions for $a$ and $b$, which you can sort out manually.
$endgroup$
Note that $sqrt25b^2 - 80 $ is a whole number if and only if $25b^2 - 80$ is a square. This gives the equation
$$ 25b^2 - 80 = a^2 implies a^2-25b^2 = 80 implies a^2-(5b)^2 = 80$$
This can be factored as
$$ (a-5b)(a+5b) = 80.$$
Using the prime factorization of $80 = 2^4 cdot 5$ and that $a$ and $b$ are whole numbers, this results in a number of equation systems of the form
$$ begincases a-5b = c_1 \ a+5b = c_2 endcases $$
where $c_1$ and $c_2$ are whole numbers such that $c_1 c_2 = 80$ (there are $20$ such systems: ten positive and ten negative).
Solving these will reduce your search to a finite number of possible solutions for $a$ and $b$, which you can sort out manually.
answered 17 hours ago
Daniel AhlsénDaniel Ahlsén
3765
3765
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So you have,
$$
fracb4 + frac1a = fraca20
$$
This gives you,
$$
a^2 - 5ab - 20 = 0
$$
for $a$ and $b$ in $mathbbW$.
You are expressing $a$ in terms of $b$ as,
$$
a = frac5b pm sqrt25b^2+802
$$
Since you want to prove/disprove that $a$ and $b$ exist by checking whether the discriminant is whole. That is,
$$
sqrt25b^2+80 = n
$$
where $n in mathbbW$.
Or,
$$
b = fracsqrtn^2 - 805
$$
Now, if we were to check it case by case, it is impossible as all we know is that $n geq 9$ (for it to even be real).
There may however be other ways to prove the presence/absence of $a$ and $b$.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So you have,
$$
fracb4 + frac1a = fraca20
$$
This gives you,
$$
a^2 - 5ab - 20 = 0
$$
for $a$ and $b$ in $mathbbW$.
You are expressing $a$ in terms of $b$ as,
$$
a = frac5b pm sqrt25b^2+802
$$
Since you want to prove/disprove that $a$ and $b$ exist by checking whether the discriminant is whole. That is,
$$
sqrt25b^2+80 = n
$$
where $n in mathbbW$.
Or,
$$
b = fracsqrtn^2 - 805
$$
Now, if we were to check it case by case, it is impossible as all we know is that $n geq 9$ (for it to even be real).
There may however be other ways to prove the presence/absence of $a$ and $b$.
New contributor
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So you have,
$$
fracb4 + frac1a = fraca20
$$
This gives you,
$$
a^2 - 5ab - 20 = 0
$$
for $a$ and $b$ in $mathbbW$.
You are expressing $a$ in terms of $b$ as,
$$
a = frac5b pm sqrt25b^2+802
$$
Since you want to prove/disprove that $a$ and $b$ exist by checking whether the discriminant is whole. That is,
$$
sqrt25b^2+80 = n
$$
where $n in mathbbW$.
Or,
$$
b = fracsqrtn^2 - 805
$$
Now, if we were to check it case by case, it is impossible as all we know is that $n geq 9$ (for it to even be real).
There may however be other ways to prove the presence/absence of $a$ and $b$.
New contributor
$endgroup$
So you have,
$$
fracb4 + frac1a = fraca20
$$
This gives you,
$$
a^2 - 5ab - 20 = 0
$$
for $a$ and $b$ in $mathbbW$.
You are expressing $a$ in terms of $b$ as,
$$
a = frac5b pm sqrt25b^2+802
$$
Since you want to prove/disprove that $a$ and $b$ exist by checking whether the discriminant is whole. That is,
$$
sqrt25b^2+80 = n
$$
where $n in mathbbW$.
Or,
$$
b = fracsqrtn^2 - 805
$$
Now, if we were to check it case by case, it is impossible as all we know is that $n geq 9$ (for it to even be real).
There may however be other ways to prove the presence/absence of $a$ and $b$.
New contributor
edited 17 hours ago
New contributor
answered 17 hours ago
Balakrishnan RajanBalakrishnan Rajan
1519
1519
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3164219%2five-worked-out-the-reasoning-but-how-do-i-write-the-proof%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
What were your $n$ value(s) in generating $delta$?
$endgroup$
– Eevee Trainer
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
You can also use the rational root theorem to restrict the possible solutions: If $0=a^2-5ba+20$ with integers $a,b$ then $a$ must be a divisor of $20$.
$endgroup$
– Martin R
18 hours ago
$begingroup$
Isn't it $a^2 - 5ab - 20 = 0$??
$endgroup$
– Balakrishnan Rajan
17 hours ago
$begingroup$
Can you write a more descriptive/informative title?
$endgroup$
– YuiTo Cheng
15 hours ago