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Confused about a passage in Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal


Why is subjunctive used when talking about a fact?Using “qué” or “quién” when talking about peopleSer vs estar in sentences about compositionSome questions about Spanish tenses and sentence structure“No es culpa mía (de) que …”Talking about headaches in SpanishUsing “lo que” or “que” as the relative pronounHow do you use Alguno and its other forms correctly?The proper use of le as the indirect pronounWhy is subjunctive used when talking about a fact?Speaking about body parts in Spanish













4















I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal, and I'm a bit confused about how this passage works gramatically:




La profesora McGonagall los observó mientras convertían un raton en
una caja de rapé. Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los
restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




First, is Professor McGonagall the implied subject of sumaba? If so, how does la belleza de las cajas fit in? I would have though you'd need a preposition in there, something like sumaba puntos por la belleza de las cajas.



And finally, I'm confused about how que tuvieran bigotes works; I again would have thought you'd need a preposition, e.g. something like los restaba por las (cajas) que tuvieran bigotes.



Gracias!










share|improve this question


























    4















    I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal, and I'm a bit confused about how this passage works gramatically:




    La profesora McGonagall los observó mientras convertían un raton en
    una caja de rapé. Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los
    restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




    First, is Professor McGonagall the implied subject of sumaba? If so, how does la belleza de las cajas fit in? I would have though you'd need a preposition in there, something like sumaba puntos por la belleza de las cajas.



    And finally, I'm confused about how que tuvieran bigotes works; I again would have thought you'd need a preposition, e.g. something like los restaba por las (cajas) que tuvieran bigotes.



    Gracias!










    share|improve this question
























      4












      4








      4








      I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal, and I'm a bit confused about how this passage works gramatically:




      La profesora McGonagall los observó mientras convertían un raton en
      una caja de rapé. Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los
      restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




      First, is Professor McGonagall the implied subject of sumaba? If so, how does la belleza de las cajas fit in? I would have though you'd need a preposition in there, something like sumaba puntos por la belleza de las cajas.



      And finally, I'm confused about how que tuvieran bigotes works; I again would have thought you'd need a preposition, e.g. something like los restaba por las (cajas) que tuvieran bigotes.



      Gracias!










      share|improve this question














      I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal, and I'm a bit confused about how this passage works gramatically:




      La profesora McGonagall los observó mientras convertían un raton en
      una caja de rapé. Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los
      restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




      First, is Professor McGonagall the implied subject of sumaba? If so, how does la belleza de las cajas fit in? I would have though you'd need a preposition in there, something like sumaba puntos por la belleza de las cajas.



      And finally, I'm confused about how que tuvieran bigotes works; I again would have thought you'd need a preposition, e.g. something like los restaba por las (cajas) que tuvieran bigotes.



      Gracias!







      gramática






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked yesterday









      Alan O'DonnellAlan O'Donnell

      1433




      1433




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          10














          The sentence:




          Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




          is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.



          The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:




          La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).




          This inversion is very usual in Spanish.



          In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:




          Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).




          The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:



          • The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.

          The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:



          Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 1





            Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

            – Alan O'Donnell
            23 hours ago


















          7














          Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.



          The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:



          1. sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas

          2. los restaba que tuvieran bigotes

          In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.



          In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".



          "Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be




          La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.







          share|improve this answer






























            0














            Basically, it is saying the following:




            The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
            and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)




            And for the following:




            los restaba que tuvieran bigotes




            First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.






            share|improve this answer




















            • 1





              Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

              – Alan O'Donnell
              yesterday










            Your Answer








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            3 Answers
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            active

            oldest

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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            10














            The sentence:




            Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




            is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.



            The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:




            La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).




            This inversion is very usual in Spanish.



            In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:




            Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).




            The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:



            • The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.

            The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:



            Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.






            share|improve this answer




















            • 1





              Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

              – Alan O'Donnell
              23 hours ago















            10














            The sentence:




            Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




            is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.



            The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:




            La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).




            This inversion is very usual in Spanish.



            In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:




            Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).




            The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:



            • The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.

            The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:



            Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.






            share|improve this answer




















            • 1





              Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

              – Alan O'Donnell
              23 hours ago













            10












            10








            10







            The sentence:




            Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




            is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.



            The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:




            La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).




            This inversion is very usual in Spanish.



            In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:




            Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).




            The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:



            • The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.

            The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:



            Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.






            share|improve this answer















            The sentence:




            Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




            is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.



            The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:




            La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).




            This inversion is very usual in Spanish.



            In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:




            Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).




            The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:



            • The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.

            The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:



            Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited yesterday

























            answered yesterday









            GustavsonGustavson

            9,2061829




            9,2061829







            • 1





              Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

              – Alan O'Donnell
              23 hours ago












            • 1





              Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

              – Alan O'Donnell
              23 hours ago







            1




            1





            Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

            – Alan O'Donnell
            23 hours ago





            Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

            – Alan O'Donnell
            23 hours ago











            7














            Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.



            The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:



            1. sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas

            2. los restaba que tuvieran bigotes

            In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.



            In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".



            "Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be




            La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.







            share|improve this answer



























              7














              Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.



              The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:



              1. sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas

              2. los restaba que tuvieran bigotes

              In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.



              In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".



              "Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be




              La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.







              share|improve this answer

























                7












                7








                7







                Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.



                The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:



                1. sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas

                2. los restaba que tuvieran bigotes

                In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.



                In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".



                "Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be




                La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.







                share|improve this answer













                Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.



                The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:



                1. sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas

                2. los restaba que tuvieran bigotes

                In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.



                In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".



                "Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be




                La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.








                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered yesterday









                pablodf76pablodf76

                22k11467




                22k11467





















                    0














                    Basically, it is saying the following:




                    The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
                    and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)




                    And for the following:




                    los restaba que tuvieran bigotes




                    First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.






                    share|improve this answer




















                    • 1





                      Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

                      – Alan O'Donnell
                      yesterday















                    0














                    Basically, it is saying the following:




                    The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
                    and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)




                    And for the following:




                    los restaba que tuvieran bigotes




                    First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.






                    share|improve this answer




















                    • 1





                      Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

                      – Alan O'Donnell
                      yesterday













                    0












                    0








                    0







                    Basically, it is saying the following:




                    The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
                    and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)




                    And for the following:




                    los restaba que tuvieran bigotes




                    First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.






                    share|improve this answer















                    Basically, it is saying the following:




                    The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
                    and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)




                    And for the following:




                    los restaba que tuvieran bigotes




                    First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited yesterday

























                    answered yesterday









                    KarlomanioKarlomanio

                    41529




                    41529







                    • 1





                      Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

                      – Alan O'Donnell
                      yesterday












                    • 1





                      Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

                      – Alan O'Donnell
                      yesterday







                    1




                    1





                    Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

                    – Alan O'Donnell
                    yesterday





                    Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

                    – Alan O'Donnell
                    yesterday

















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                    Romeo and Juliet ContentsCharactersSynopsisSourcesDate and textThemes and motifsCriticism and interpretationLegacyScene by sceneSee alsoNotes and referencesSourcesExternal linksNavigation menu"Consumer Price Index (estimate) 1800–"10.2307/28710160037-3222287101610.1093/res/II.5.31910.2307/45967845967810.2307/2869925286992510.1525/jams.1982.35.3.03a00050"Dada Masilo: South African dancer who breaks the rules"10.1093/res/os-XV.57.1610.2307/28680942868094"Sweet Sorrow: Mann-Korman's Romeo and Juliet Closes Sept. 5 at MN's Ordway"the original10.2307/45957745957710.1017/CCOL0521570476.009"Ram Leela box office collections hit massive Rs 100 crore, pulverises prediction"Archived"Broadway Revival of Romeo and Juliet, Starring Orlando Bloom and Condola Rashad, Will Close Dec. 8"Archived10.1075/jhp.7.1.04hon"Wherefore art thou, Romeo? To make us laugh at Navy Pier"the original10.1093/gmo/9781561592630.article.O006772"Ram-leela Review Roundup: Critics Hail Film as Best Adaptation of Romeo and Juliet"Archived10.2307/31946310047-77293194631"Romeo and Juliet get Twitter treatment""Juliet's Nurse by Lois Leveen""Romeo and Juliet: Orlando Bloom's Broadway Debut Released in Theaters for Valentine's Day"Archived"Romeo and Juliet Has No Balcony"10.1093/gmo/9781561592630.article.O00778110.2307/2867423286742310.1076/enst.82.2.115.959510.1080/00138380601042675"A plague o' both your houses: error in GCSE exam paper forces apology""Juliet of the Five O'Clock Shadow, and Other Wonders"10.2307/33912430027-4321339124310.2307/28487440038-7134284874410.2307/29123140149-661129123144728341M"Weekender Guide: Shakespeare on The Drive""balcony"UK public library membership"romeo"UK public library membership10.1017/CCOL9780521844291"Post-Zionist Critique on Israel and the Palestinians Part III: Popular Culture"10.2307/25379071533-86140377-919X2537907"Capulets and Montagues: UK exam board admit mixing names up in Romeo and Juliet paper"Istoria Novellamente Ritrovata di Due Nobili Amanti2027/mdp.390150822329610820-750X"GCSE exam error: Board accidentally rewrites Shakespeare"10.2307/29176390149-66112917639"Exam board apologises after error in English GCSE paper which confused characters in Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet""From Mariotto and Ganozza to Romeo and Guilietta: Metamorphoses of a Renaissance Tale"10.2307/37323537323510.2307/2867455286745510.2307/28678912867891"10 Questions for Taylor Swift"10.2307/28680922868092"Haymarket Theatre""The Zeffirelli Way: Revealing Talk by Florentine Director""Michael Smuin: 1938-2007 / Prolific dance director had showy career"The Life and Art of Edwin BoothRomeo and JulietRomeo and JulietRomeo and JulietRomeo and JulietEasy Read Romeo and JulietRomeo and Julieteeecb12003684p(data)4099369-3n8211610759dbe00d-a9e2-41a3-b2c1-977dd692899302814385X313670221313670221