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Received an invoice from my ex-employer billing me for training; how to handle? [on hold]



The Next CEO of Stack OverflowHow do I deal with an employer withholding my paycheck?How does billing by hours work as skill increases and time to completion decreases?IT contract jobs - how and when to ask your billing rate?Standard for billing followup consultation workHow to respond to a customer's demand for payment extension?How do I prevent a client from bleeding me dry with small questions and tasks they expect to receive for free?How do I convince my employer to take my mention of resignation seriously?How to convince management of changing unethical billing practices?Should I attend an expensive employer-paid training if I plan to quit soon?My Employer forcing me to enter double billing for two customers










80















About 4 months ago I started a job and quit after a month due to a ton of awful things about the organization that aren't relevant here. Today I received in the mail a letter from the company stating that I owe them money, around $5500, for time spent training me, and $1500 for a software license for AutoCAD they bought for me.



They said since I quit before I was able to provide income for the company, I'm responsible for reimbursing their costs. I can post an anonymized copy of the letter if it's needed, but I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?



I never signed anything saying that I'd owe them money if I quit - I have a copy of the signed employee agreement with nothing anywhere close to that in it. The AutoCAD license was installed on a work computer that never went home with me and I returned everything they gave me on my last day, down to the free shirt and water bottle.



Should I respond that I'm not paying, or just ignore this?










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put on hold as off-topic by gnat, Bill Leeper, mcknz, OldPadawan, The Wandering Dev Manager yesterday


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "Questions seeking advice on company-specific regulations, agreements, or policies should be directed to your manager or HR department. Questions that address only a specific company or position are of limited use to future visitors. Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to legal professionals. For more information, click here." – gnat, Bill Leeper, mcknz, OldPadawan, The Wandering Dev Manager
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.











  • 116





    Actually this sounds like just one more thing to add to your list of "awful things about the organization."

    – shoover
    2 days ago






  • 38





    Can you add a country tag?

    – ventsyv
    2 days ago






  • 4





    It would really help if you mentioned what country you're in, since laws differ.

    – jamesqf
    2 days ago






  • 6





    @donjuedo Filing a lawsuit would require the OP to take actions that would cost time and/or money before being dismissed by the judge. It's better that the OP forces his ex-company to take on those expenses for the same result (assuming that they even take it that far)

    – Peter M
    2 days ago






  • 9





    My standard law of legal advice: The only legal advice you can trust from anyone is "get a lawyer" - this includes strangers, friends, family, on the internet, at the cafe, on the train, and in the lobby of a lawyer's office.

    – corsiKa
    2 days ago















80















About 4 months ago I started a job and quit after a month due to a ton of awful things about the organization that aren't relevant here. Today I received in the mail a letter from the company stating that I owe them money, around $5500, for time spent training me, and $1500 for a software license for AutoCAD they bought for me.



They said since I quit before I was able to provide income for the company, I'm responsible for reimbursing their costs. I can post an anonymized copy of the letter if it's needed, but I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?



I never signed anything saying that I'd owe them money if I quit - I have a copy of the signed employee agreement with nothing anywhere close to that in it. The AutoCAD license was installed on a work computer that never went home with me and I returned everything they gave me on my last day, down to the free shirt and water bottle.



Should I respond that I'm not paying, or just ignore this?










share|improve this question









New contributor




outerviewer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











put on hold as off-topic by gnat, Bill Leeper, mcknz, OldPadawan, The Wandering Dev Manager yesterday


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "Questions seeking advice on company-specific regulations, agreements, or policies should be directed to your manager or HR department. Questions that address only a specific company or position are of limited use to future visitors. Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to legal professionals. For more information, click here." – gnat, Bill Leeper, mcknz, OldPadawan, The Wandering Dev Manager
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.











  • 116





    Actually this sounds like just one more thing to add to your list of "awful things about the organization."

    – shoover
    2 days ago






  • 38





    Can you add a country tag?

    – ventsyv
    2 days ago






  • 4





    It would really help if you mentioned what country you're in, since laws differ.

    – jamesqf
    2 days ago






  • 6





    @donjuedo Filing a lawsuit would require the OP to take actions that would cost time and/or money before being dismissed by the judge. It's better that the OP forces his ex-company to take on those expenses for the same result (assuming that they even take it that far)

    – Peter M
    2 days ago






  • 9





    My standard law of legal advice: The only legal advice you can trust from anyone is "get a lawyer" - this includes strangers, friends, family, on the internet, at the cafe, on the train, and in the lobby of a lawyer's office.

    – corsiKa
    2 days ago













80












80








80


3






About 4 months ago I started a job and quit after a month due to a ton of awful things about the organization that aren't relevant here. Today I received in the mail a letter from the company stating that I owe them money, around $5500, for time spent training me, and $1500 for a software license for AutoCAD they bought for me.



They said since I quit before I was able to provide income for the company, I'm responsible for reimbursing their costs. I can post an anonymized copy of the letter if it's needed, but I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?



I never signed anything saying that I'd owe them money if I quit - I have a copy of the signed employee agreement with nothing anywhere close to that in it. The AutoCAD license was installed on a work computer that never went home with me and I returned everything they gave me on my last day, down to the free shirt and water bottle.



Should I respond that I'm not paying, or just ignore this?










share|improve this question









New contributor




outerviewer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












About 4 months ago I started a job and quit after a month due to a ton of awful things about the organization that aren't relevant here. Today I received in the mail a letter from the company stating that I owe them money, around $5500, for time spent training me, and $1500 for a software license for AutoCAD they bought for me.



They said since I quit before I was able to provide income for the company, I'm responsible for reimbursing their costs. I can post an anonymized copy of the letter if it's needed, but I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?



I never signed anything saying that I'd owe them money if I quit - I have a copy of the signed employee agreement with nothing anywhere close to that in it. The AutoCAD license was installed on a work computer that never went home with me and I returned everything they gave me on my last day, down to the free shirt and water bottle.



Should I respond that I'm not paying, or just ignore this?







quitting billing






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New contributor




outerviewer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




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share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago









DarkCygnus

39.3k1886168




39.3k1886168






New contributor




outerviewer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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asked 2 days ago









outerviewerouterviewer

35624




35624




New contributor




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New contributor





outerviewer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






outerviewer is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




put on hold as off-topic by gnat, Bill Leeper, mcknz, OldPadawan, The Wandering Dev Manager yesterday


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "Questions seeking advice on company-specific regulations, agreements, or policies should be directed to your manager or HR department. Questions that address only a specific company or position are of limited use to future visitors. Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to legal professionals. For more information, click here." – gnat, Bill Leeper, mcknz, OldPadawan, The Wandering Dev Manager
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.







put on hold as off-topic by gnat, Bill Leeper, mcknz, OldPadawan, The Wandering Dev Manager yesterday


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "Questions seeking advice on company-specific regulations, agreements, or policies should be directed to your manager or HR department. Questions that address only a specific company or position are of limited use to future visitors. Questions seeking legal advice should be directed to legal professionals. For more information, click here." – gnat, Bill Leeper, mcknz, OldPadawan, The Wandering Dev Manager
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.







  • 116





    Actually this sounds like just one more thing to add to your list of "awful things about the organization."

    – shoover
    2 days ago






  • 38





    Can you add a country tag?

    – ventsyv
    2 days ago






  • 4





    It would really help if you mentioned what country you're in, since laws differ.

    – jamesqf
    2 days ago






  • 6





    @donjuedo Filing a lawsuit would require the OP to take actions that would cost time and/or money before being dismissed by the judge. It's better that the OP forces his ex-company to take on those expenses for the same result (assuming that they even take it that far)

    – Peter M
    2 days ago






  • 9





    My standard law of legal advice: The only legal advice you can trust from anyone is "get a lawyer" - this includes strangers, friends, family, on the internet, at the cafe, on the train, and in the lobby of a lawyer's office.

    – corsiKa
    2 days ago












  • 116





    Actually this sounds like just one more thing to add to your list of "awful things about the organization."

    – shoover
    2 days ago






  • 38





    Can you add a country tag?

    – ventsyv
    2 days ago






  • 4





    It would really help if you mentioned what country you're in, since laws differ.

    – jamesqf
    2 days ago






  • 6





    @donjuedo Filing a lawsuit would require the OP to take actions that would cost time and/or money before being dismissed by the judge. It's better that the OP forces his ex-company to take on those expenses for the same result (assuming that they even take it that far)

    – Peter M
    2 days ago






  • 9





    My standard law of legal advice: The only legal advice you can trust from anyone is "get a lawyer" - this includes strangers, friends, family, on the internet, at the cafe, on the train, and in the lobby of a lawyer's office.

    – corsiKa
    2 days ago







116




116





Actually this sounds like just one more thing to add to your list of "awful things about the organization."

– shoover
2 days ago





Actually this sounds like just one more thing to add to your list of "awful things about the organization."

– shoover
2 days ago




38




38





Can you add a country tag?

– ventsyv
2 days ago





Can you add a country tag?

– ventsyv
2 days ago




4




4





It would really help if you mentioned what country you're in, since laws differ.

– jamesqf
2 days ago





It would really help if you mentioned what country you're in, since laws differ.

– jamesqf
2 days ago




6




6





@donjuedo Filing a lawsuit would require the OP to take actions that would cost time and/or money before being dismissed by the judge. It's better that the OP forces his ex-company to take on those expenses for the same result (assuming that they even take it that far)

– Peter M
2 days ago





@donjuedo Filing a lawsuit would require the OP to take actions that would cost time and/or money before being dismissed by the judge. It's better that the OP forces his ex-company to take on those expenses for the same result (assuming that they even take it that far)

– Peter M
2 days ago




9




9





My standard law of legal advice: The only legal advice you can trust from anyone is "get a lawyer" - this includes strangers, friends, family, on the internet, at the cafe, on the train, and in the lobby of a lawyer's office.

– corsiKa
2 days ago





My standard law of legal advice: The only legal advice you can trust from anyone is "get a lawyer" - this includes strangers, friends, family, on the internet, at the cafe, on the train, and in the lobby of a lawyer's office.

– corsiKa
2 days ago










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















88














Your question was,




I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?




Based on what you said here,




I never signed anything saying that I'd owe them money if I quit - I have a copy of the signed employee agreement with nothing anywhere close to that in it. The AutoCAD license was installed on a work computer that never went home with me and I returned everything they gave me on my last day, down to the free shirt and water bottle.




Then I think the answer is pretty clearly, no. You can't be held responsible. It is sometimes the case that employment contracts include terms for reimbursement of specific expenses or repayment of specific types of benefits (ie an employer that pays for you to go get your Masters degree may have terms in your contract stating that you need to pay them back if you quit within a certain time frame), but that is apparently not the case for you.



It seems like your best course of action is to ignore the request. Any response you make may be seen by them as grounds to continue to push you. If they escalate, it would be appropriate for you to do so as well (ie get a lawyer involved). Otherwise, I would not acknowledge their request in any way.






share|improve this answer


















  • 4





    Ignoring things like this does not make the problem magically go away.

    – Mark Rotteveel
    yesterday






  • 8





    @MarkRetteveel Actually, it sometimes does.

    – Michael Kay
    yesterday











  • This is spot-on other than ignoring the request. A polite, firmly-worded letter by registered post stating that to his/her knowledge he/she didn't agree to such reimbursement, and politely asking where specifically they believe that is in the contract, should be sufficient. If they reply at all, it'll be with blather and nonsense. A second reply stating that as he/she has not had any specifics from the company as requested he/she continues to believe there's no agreement for reimbursement will probably go unanswered. Obviously, carefully document and keep all originals, along with copies.

    – T.J. Crowder
    yesterday


















60














Oh, keep this, and your signed agreement in a very secure location.



Depending on your location, you may be needing them for a civil suit. Your employer will probably end up wishing that it only cost them $7000.



FWIW: I am inferring the U.S. because of the currency denomination. You might want to specify a location tag.






share|improve this answer


















  • 33





    @outerviewer make sure you keep every piece of documentation that you have - I had a letter that stated a date that solved an argument with a senior manager - he wanted to backdate my apprenticeship by 4 months to finish me early and save 4 months money... That one letter stopped him (He was not happy :) )

    – Solar Mike
    2 days ago


















34















I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?




Right. It's a bluff to see if you would pay anyway.




Should I respond that I'm not paying, or just ignore this?




I would respond once and only once with something like:



"Since my employment agreement said nothing about being required to reimburse any training expenses if I left, I will not do so.



The AutoCAD license was installed and remains on a company computer. The computer was returned when I left. I am not responsible for the cost of this license and will not provide any reimbursement."



Then I would not respond to subsequent letters, although I would keep copies of everything.



In the unlikely event you are sued, make sure you have all the relevant facts and copies of all correspondence. I have a hard time imagining they would waste their time doing so, and an even harder time imagining they could win.






share|improve this answer


















  • 29





    In a case like this where the company is so out of line, is it even in the OPs interest to respond? I sort of feel that doing so adds some legitimacy to the claim by acknowledging that it exists in the first place.

    – Peter M
    2 days ago











  • Is it possible that besides a desire for repayment, there is also an element of harassment or vindictiveness?

    – trognanders
    2 days ago






  • 9





    If you were to respond at all, wouldn't it be better to just ask for evidence of a debt and nothing more? The more you say the more chance there is that you'll give them something that'll help them later (like an acknowledgement that training and software licences existed at all) or make a mistake of some kind. And if they don't respond to a question like that, well, maybe that's useful if you live somewhere where courts don't like litigants who refuse to talk to each other first.

    – Alex Hayward
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @Neinstein For me its not about approval/disapproval of the claim, but instead engaging vs not engaging the ex-company in the first place. By engaging them your are acknowledging that they do have a claim (regardless of its legitimacy), and doing so empowers them to press you more for a resolution in their favor. (remember that this is a bogus claim in the first place so the ex-company is not acting rationally from the start - and this will not change no matter how rational you are)

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 3





    @PeterM Stating that you will not do something and the reason you are not obligated to do so cannot be construed as legitimizing a claim in any halfway reasonable court of law. The example text is very clear and explicit on these points. Misconstruing it as you describe is so obviously wrong that I would not expect even a court to be able to screw up that badly.

    – jpmc26
    yesterday



















13














You don't have to do a thing, but there are ways to handle it. In some countries like the US, it may be better to stay silent or ask a lawyer (which costs!), because the law can be very harsh and expensive if done wrong. If you're more sure of writing, then you can probably sort this out yourself.



I'll sum up what I'd expect is a good approach, but you may choose to do nothing and "wait and see", or ask a lawyer, in some places.



How the law sees it



When a business enters a contract, it is assumed that they know what they are doing. A private individual often gets more protection, because they often don't. (Which is why consumer and employment law often strongly favour the consumer/employee).



Your company knew when they employed you, that they wanted certain conditions as part of that employment. They knew you could leave on certain terms, and accepted that. In fact, they probably told you (dictated to you?) what those terms would be. They actually chose them, themselves.



When they bought you software, or trained you, they knew you had that right to leave. If they wanted to make training or purchases conditional on you staying, or chargeable if you didn't, then they had every chance in the world to say if that mattered to them. They could have written it in the original contract (it was only 4 months ago so they surely had some idea of what they'd do!). They could have asked you at the time to sign an additional agreement that you wouldn't leave for a year or would repay if you did, in return for this stuff they were about to do. They didn't do any of that, and they had the choice, the ability, and the awareness to do so. So they can't now look to you, to cover up their failure. They knew they had given you a right to leave without repaying, when they did all that, so they can hardly expect you to voluntarily repay if you take them up on the rights they signed with you.



Put differently, every contract carries risk. If you want to not have a risk, you don't agree to contracts that have the risks in them, that you aren't willing to agree to - much less author those contracts. They didn't want to expose themselves to a risk of investing in someone, only to have them leave after 4 months? Then they shouldn't have signed a contract by which they voluntarily put themselves in that position with their employee.



A second way a court will look at it, for the license at least, is to ask if the company actually lost anything. Presumably they hired you because they needed someone to do work that would involve AutoCAD. They surely didn't buy it as a luxury! So presumably that work still exists. So they'll be able to use the license for their next hire.



After all, every employee who walks, could be sued if that basis were valid. You walked out after a week, and your job was inputting data from invoices? Well, we had to take time to recruit you, train you, get you a desk and chair, pay for the floor space you took up, pay for a computer and those internal support time you needed from IT to get it working.....



No. Just no. It doesn't work that way.



What to do



As I said, you may choose to wait, or get advice. But if you intended to write, you would want to write in a way that has a high chance of shutting them up :)



I tend to write strongly, and you may not feel comfortable doing so (and it may in fact be very unwise in some countries or situations to do so, or to not get legal advice). I'm also used to UK laws and legal frameworks where writing this way is a pretty safe bet, which might not apply where you are.



But if you did want to write or handle it yourself, and felt it was safe and you were confident to do so, this is roughly what I'd say, so you can pick the key points and use them as you feel best.



Something like this:




"Dear X,



I am in receipt of your letter of Xx March 2019, which looks to me like a simple attempt to extort money without good grounds.



I was employed under a contract. That contract was authored by Y Inc. itself, and the terms were chosen by and agreeable to Y Inc. The contract stated my rights to leave, and what happens when I leave. I attach a copy for your reference.



If you believe that the contract states that I must pay any sums on training or software you bought as an employer, I would appreciate you citing the paragraphs that contain those agreements. You will find no such agreement, of course, which means I do not expect to be troubled by you again on this spurious claim.



Having set out the contractual situation, I now consider this matter permanently closed. I reserve all of my rights to consider any further attempt to seek payment of this kind, or other adverse action taken in lieu, as likely to be an extortion attempt or other illegal action, and reserve my rights to seek any combination of legal advice, compensation or to report it as a police matter. I may also choose to ignore unfounded claims, if any.



Kindly do not write again.



Signed, Z."




[The "other adverse action" and "other illegal action" is in case they try to blacken your name or make harmful claims in revenge, which some might consider. But I haven't said that explicitly since we don't need to give them foolish ideas. Also note the thin line in defamation law - it is usually very safe to say "It looks to me like X", because that's a true statement of honestly held opinion, but it's much less safe to say "it is X", which claims a true statement absolutely]






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    IMHO stating "which looks to me like a simple attempt to extort money without good grounds" is both unnecessary and potentially damaging to the OP as it is pure speculation and will only act to aggravate the ex-company - even though you have a disclaimer. Personally I would leave out all speculation and only state provable facts.

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 2





    This, or ignoring it, are the only correct responses. These people are assholes and need to be told off, without actually using the word "asshole". @PeterM - "looks to me" is the clause that gets you out of jail here. You don't make a factual claim, you report your interpretation.

    – Tom
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Peter M - I agree. Except, when certain of my ground and wanting them to have no illusion how it may be interpreted, it can be useful to name it for what it is (or at least, what it seems to oneself to be, to avoid accusations of defaming!). It tends to have a sobering effect and suppress the urge to go full-on idiot by a hotheaded and bullying owner/manager/director, and shows that you may bite back and they may be treading on dangerous ground. Also much more likely they'll seek advice too, in which case a lawyer will tell them you're basically right, which will help calm it a lot.

    – Stilez
    yesterday







  • 1





    @Tom Compare telling a mother "Your kid is ugly" vs "I think your kid is ugly". While the latter may have the "get out of jail card" it is going to be hard for the mother to initially differentiate between the two statements. Thus creating unnecessary bad feeling (and giving the mother reason to do something stupid) . And by knowingly doing so to the ex-company you are stooping to their level of asshole-ness. Thats why IMHO you should always keep it professional on you end and keep your actions above reproach.

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Stilez While the company will eventually get a reality check I think that speculating (and it is speculating - as you have no idea what is going on at the ex-company) on their motives will act to push their buttons and give them license to go even more full on idiot in the short term. For all you know you may encounter a manager that says "screw what the lawyer advises - I want to see this prick in court just because he is pissing me off". So its not the destination I am trying to avoid, but an un-desirable and unnecessary side trip to legal hell.

    – Peter M
    yesterday


















-4














If you have no documentation stating that you owe them this money (in your contract/employment agreement/etc), then tell them as such: "I never agreed to this, go shove it" (depending on how you feel about this company, I might be tempted to use those exact words) and do not respond to any further communique. If they continue to "shout into the void", as it were, you may want to contact a lawyer regarding harassment.




If you feel like being extra cheeky though, you may want to suggest, at least, if you have to pay $1500 for the AutoCAD subscription, then it should be your property. Issue them a notice to have your AutoCAD license transferred to you on threat of a lawsuit for stolen property, and see what they say. Of course, this is likely to not work out in the way you hope it will, so only do it if you feel like being cheeky and having some fun with a possible potential downside cost down the road. I don't actually recommend doing this, I just think it would be funny to hear their response.






share|improve this answer


















  • 19





    I think this advice is entertaining, but so so unprofessional. Be better than them (i.e. not a child). If you're going to stop responding to them after telling them to "shove it", then just don't respond to begin with. What do you aim to gain by starting a confrontation? Same with the AutoCAD license - so you ask them to transfer the license to you and they agree. Now what? You are still out $1500.

    – Catsunami
    2 days ago











  • Agreed cheeky is all but never the professional answer. There is some professional merit though in the concept that if they expect someone to pay for resources they purchased for them, those resources must be transferred or at minimum prorated back for the unusable portion.

    – John Spiegel
    2 days ago






  • 20





    Yeah, the AutoCAD thing in particular is horrible advice. If the boss wants to screw you over, they'll instantly agree. Suddenly, you went from "Not legally required to pay anything" to "Agreeing to buy an instance of AutoCAD for $1500 that you weren't planning on." After all, it doesn't cost the boss anything to take your $1500 and just buy another license.

    – Kevin
    2 days ago











  • @Kevin I agree that that is horrible advice. As a CAD administrator, though, it would be really difficult and painstaking to transfer a license. While you can give anyone a product key, it is tied to a contract - a contract that likely has multiple Autodesk licenses. To really transfer ownership would probably involve direct assistance from Autodesk... good luck with that.

    – Evan Elrod
    2 days ago

















5 Answers
5






active

oldest

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5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

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active

oldest

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88














Your question was,




I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?




Based on what you said here,




I never signed anything saying that I'd owe them money if I quit - I have a copy of the signed employee agreement with nothing anywhere close to that in it. The AutoCAD license was installed on a work computer that never went home with me and I returned everything they gave me on my last day, down to the free shirt and water bottle.




Then I think the answer is pretty clearly, no. You can't be held responsible. It is sometimes the case that employment contracts include terms for reimbursement of specific expenses or repayment of specific types of benefits (ie an employer that pays for you to go get your Masters degree may have terms in your contract stating that you need to pay them back if you quit within a certain time frame), but that is apparently not the case for you.



It seems like your best course of action is to ignore the request. Any response you make may be seen by them as grounds to continue to push you. If they escalate, it would be appropriate for you to do so as well (ie get a lawyer involved). Otherwise, I would not acknowledge their request in any way.






share|improve this answer


















  • 4





    Ignoring things like this does not make the problem magically go away.

    – Mark Rotteveel
    yesterday






  • 8





    @MarkRetteveel Actually, it sometimes does.

    – Michael Kay
    yesterday











  • This is spot-on other than ignoring the request. A polite, firmly-worded letter by registered post stating that to his/her knowledge he/she didn't agree to such reimbursement, and politely asking where specifically they believe that is in the contract, should be sufficient. If they reply at all, it'll be with blather and nonsense. A second reply stating that as he/she has not had any specifics from the company as requested he/she continues to believe there's no agreement for reimbursement will probably go unanswered. Obviously, carefully document and keep all originals, along with copies.

    – T.J. Crowder
    yesterday















88














Your question was,




I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?




Based on what you said here,




I never signed anything saying that I'd owe them money if I quit - I have a copy of the signed employee agreement with nothing anywhere close to that in it. The AutoCAD license was installed on a work computer that never went home with me and I returned everything they gave me on my last day, down to the free shirt and water bottle.




Then I think the answer is pretty clearly, no. You can't be held responsible. It is sometimes the case that employment contracts include terms for reimbursement of specific expenses or repayment of specific types of benefits (ie an employer that pays for you to go get your Masters degree may have terms in your contract stating that you need to pay them back if you quit within a certain time frame), but that is apparently not the case for you.



It seems like your best course of action is to ignore the request. Any response you make may be seen by them as grounds to continue to push you. If they escalate, it would be appropriate for you to do so as well (ie get a lawyer involved). Otherwise, I would not acknowledge their request in any way.






share|improve this answer


















  • 4





    Ignoring things like this does not make the problem magically go away.

    – Mark Rotteveel
    yesterday






  • 8





    @MarkRetteveel Actually, it sometimes does.

    – Michael Kay
    yesterday











  • This is spot-on other than ignoring the request. A polite, firmly-worded letter by registered post stating that to his/her knowledge he/she didn't agree to such reimbursement, and politely asking where specifically they believe that is in the contract, should be sufficient. If they reply at all, it'll be with blather and nonsense. A second reply stating that as he/she has not had any specifics from the company as requested he/she continues to believe there's no agreement for reimbursement will probably go unanswered. Obviously, carefully document and keep all originals, along with copies.

    – T.J. Crowder
    yesterday













88












88








88







Your question was,




I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?




Based on what you said here,




I never signed anything saying that I'd owe them money if I quit - I have a copy of the signed employee agreement with nothing anywhere close to that in it. The AutoCAD license was installed on a work computer that never went home with me and I returned everything they gave me on my last day, down to the free shirt and water bottle.




Then I think the answer is pretty clearly, no. You can't be held responsible. It is sometimes the case that employment contracts include terms for reimbursement of specific expenses or repayment of specific types of benefits (ie an employer that pays for you to go get your Masters degree may have terms in your contract stating that you need to pay them back if you quit within a certain time frame), but that is apparently not the case for you.



It seems like your best course of action is to ignore the request. Any response you make may be seen by them as grounds to continue to push you. If they escalate, it would be appropriate for you to do so as well (ie get a lawyer involved). Otherwise, I would not acknowledge their request in any way.






share|improve this answer













Your question was,




I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?




Based on what you said here,




I never signed anything saying that I'd owe them money if I quit - I have a copy of the signed employee agreement with nothing anywhere close to that in it. The AutoCAD license was installed on a work computer that never went home with me and I returned everything they gave me on my last day, down to the free shirt and water bottle.




Then I think the answer is pretty clearly, no. You can't be held responsible. It is sometimes the case that employment contracts include terms for reimbursement of specific expenses or repayment of specific types of benefits (ie an employer that pays for you to go get your Masters degree may have terms in your contract stating that you need to pay them back if you quit within a certain time frame), but that is apparently not the case for you.



It seems like your best course of action is to ignore the request. Any response you make may be seen by them as grounds to continue to push you. If they escalate, it would be appropriate for you to do so as well (ie get a lawyer involved). Otherwise, I would not acknowledge their request in any way.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









dwizumdwizum

18.8k93661




18.8k93661







  • 4





    Ignoring things like this does not make the problem magically go away.

    – Mark Rotteveel
    yesterday






  • 8





    @MarkRetteveel Actually, it sometimes does.

    – Michael Kay
    yesterday











  • This is spot-on other than ignoring the request. A polite, firmly-worded letter by registered post stating that to his/her knowledge he/she didn't agree to such reimbursement, and politely asking where specifically they believe that is in the contract, should be sufficient. If they reply at all, it'll be with blather and nonsense. A second reply stating that as he/she has not had any specifics from the company as requested he/she continues to believe there's no agreement for reimbursement will probably go unanswered. Obviously, carefully document and keep all originals, along with copies.

    – T.J. Crowder
    yesterday












  • 4





    Ignoring things like this does not make the problem magically go away.

    – Mark Rotteveel
    yesterday






  • 8





    @MarkRetteveel Actually, it sometimes does.

    – Michael Kay
    yesterday











  • This is spot-on other than ignoring the request. A polite, firmly-worded letter by registered post stating that to his/her knowledge he/she didn't agree to such reimbursement, and politely asking where specifically they believe that is in the contract, should be sufficient. If they reply at all, it'll be with blather and nonsense. A second reply stating that as he/she has not had any specifics from the company as requested he/she continues to believe there's no agreement for reimbursement will probably go unanswered. Obviously, carefully document and keep all originals, along with copies.

    – T.J. Crowder
    yesterday







4




4





Ignoring things like this does not make the problem magically go away.

– Mark Rotteveel
yesterday





Ignoring things like this does not make the problem magically go away.

– Mark Rotteveel
yesterday




8




8





@MarkRetteveel Actually, it sometimes does.

– Michael Kay
yesterday





@MarkRetteveel Actually, it sometimes does.

– Michael Kay
yesterday













This is spot-on other than ignoring the request. A polite, firmly-worded letter by registered post stating that to his/her knowledge he/she didn't agree to such reimbursement, and politely asking where specifically they believe that is in the contract, should be sufficient. If they reply at all, it'll be with blather and nonsense. A second reply stating that as he/she has not had any specifics from the company as requested he/she continues to believe there's no agreement for reimbursement will probably go unanswered. Obviously, carefully document and keep all originals, along with copies.

– T.J. Crowder
yesterday





This is spot-on other than ignoring the request. A polite, firmly-worded letter by registered post stating that to his/her knowledge he/she didn't agree to such reimbursement, and politely asking where specifically they believe that is in the contract, should be sufficient. If they reply at all, it'll be with blather and nonsense. A second reply stating that as he/she has not had any specifics from the company as requested he/she continues to believe there's no agreement for reimbursement will probably go unanswered. Obviously, carefully document and keep all originals, along with copies.

– T.J. Crowder
yesterday













60














Oh, keep this, and your signed agreement in a very secure location.



Depending on your location, you may be needing them for a civil suit. Your employer will probably end up wishing that it only cost them $7000.



FWIW: I am inferring the U.S. because of the currency denomination. You might want to specify a location tag.






share|improve this answer


















  • 33





    @outerviewer make sure you keep every piece of documentation that you have - I had a letter that stated a date that solved an argument with a senior manager - he wanted to backdate my apprenticeship by 4 months to finish me early and save 4 months money... That one letter stopped him (He was not happy :) )

    – Solar Mike
    2 days ago















60














Oh, keep this, and your signed agreement in a very secure location.



Depending on your location, you may be needing them for a civil suit. Your employer will probably end up wishing that it only cost them $7000.



FWIW: I am inferring the U.S. because of the currency denomination. You might want to specify a location tag.






share|improve this answer


















  • 33





    @outerviewer make sure you keep every piece of documentation that you have - I had a letter that stated a date that solved an argument with a senior manager - he wanted to backdate my apprenticeship by 4 months to finish me early and save 4 months money... That one letter stopped him (He was not happy :) )

    – Solar Mike
    2 days ago













60












60








60







Oh, keep this, and your signed agreement in a very secure location.



Depending on your location, you may be needing them for a civil suit. Your employer will probably end up wishing that it only cost them $7000.



FWIW: I am inferring the U.S. because of the currency denomination. You might want to specify a location tag.






share|improve this answer













Oh, keep this, and your signed agreement in a very secure location.



Depending on your location, you may be needing them for a civil suit. Your employer will probably end up wishing that it only cost them $7000.



FWIW: I am inferring the U.S. because of the currency denomination. You might want to specify a location tag.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









Wesley LongWesley Long

50.8k17110183




50.8k17110183







  • 33





    @outerviewer make sure you keep every piece of documentation that you have - I had a letter that stated a date that solved an argument with a senior manager - he wanted to backdate my apprenticeship by 4 months to finish me early and save 4 months money... That one letter stopped him (He was not happy :) )

    – Solar Mike
    2 days ago












  • 33





    @outerviewer make sure you keep every piece of documentation that you have - I had a letter that stated a date that solved an argument with a senior manager - he wanted to backdate my apprenticeship by 4 months to finish me early and save 4 months money... That one letter stopped him (He was not happy :) )

    – Solar Mike
    2 days ago







33




33





@outerviewer make sure you keep every piece of documentation that you have - I had a letter that stated a date that solved an argument with a senior manager - he wanted to backdate my apprenticeship by 4 months to finish me early and save 4 months money... That one letter stopped him (He was not happy :) )

– Solar Mike
2 days ago





@outerviewer make sure you keep every piece of documentation that you have - I had a letter that stated a date that solved an argument with a senior manager - he wanted to backdate my apprenticeship by 4 months to finish me early and save 4 months money... That one letter stopped him (He was not happy :) )

– Solar Mike
2 days ago











34















I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?




Right. It's a bluff to see if you would pay anyway.




Should I respond that I'm not paying, or just ignore this?




I would respond once and only once with something like:



"Since my employment agreement said nothing about being required to reimburse any training expenses if I left, I will not do so.



The AutoCAD license was installed and remains on a company computer. The computer was returned when I left. I am not responsible for the cost of this license and will not provide any reimbursement."



Then I would not respond to subsequent letters, although I would keep copies of everything.



In the unlikely event you are sued, make sure you have all the relevant facts and copies of all correspondence. I have a hard time imagining they would waste their time doing so, and an even harder time imagining they could win.






share|improve this answer


















  • 29





    In a case like this where the company is so out of line, is it even in the OPs interest to respond? I sort of feel that doing so adds some legitimacy to the claim by acknowledging that it exists in the first place.

    – Peter M
    2 days ago











  • Is it possible that besides a desire for repayment, there is also an element of harassment or vindictiveness?

    – trognanders
    2 days ago






  • 9





    If you were to respond at all, wouldn't it be better to just ask for evidence of a debt and nothing more? The more you say the more chance there is that you'll give them something that'll help them later (like an acknowledgement that training and software licences existed at all) or make a mistake of some kind. And if they don't respond to a question like that, well, maybe that's useful if you live somewhere where courts don't like litigants who refuse to talk to each other first.

    – Alex Hayward
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @Neinstein For me its not about approval/disapproval of the claim, but instead engaging vs not engaging the ex-company in the first place. By engaging them your are acknowledging that they do have a claim (regardless of its legitimacy), and doing so empowers them to press you more for a resolution in their favor. (remember that this is a bogus claim in the first place so the ex-company is not acting rationally from the start - and this will not change no matter how rational you are)

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 3





    @PeterM Stating that you will not do something and the reason you are not obligated to do so cannot be construed as legitimizing a claim in any halfway reasonable court of law. The example text is very clear and explicit on these points. Misconstruing it as you describe is so obviously wrong that I would not expect even a court to be able to screw up that badly.

    – jpmc26
    yesterday
















34















I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?




Right. It's a bluff to see if you would pay anyway.




Should I respond that I'm not paying, or just ignore this?




I would respond once and only once with something like:



"Since my employment agreement said nothing about being required to reimburse any training expenses if I left, I will not do so.



The AutoCAD license was installed and remains on a company computer. The computer was returned when I left. I am not responsible for the cost of this license and will not provide any reimbursement."



Then I would not respond to subsequent letters, although I would keep copies of everything.



In the unlikely event you are sued, make sure you have all the relevant facts and copies of all correspondence. I have a hard time imagining they would waste their time doing so, and an even harder time imagining they could win.






share|improve this answer


















  • 29





    In a case like this where the company is so out of line, is it even in the OPs interest to respond? I sort of feel that doing so adds some legitimacy to the claim by acknowledging that it exists in the first place.

    – Peter M
    2 days ago











  • Is it possible that besides a desire for repayment, there is also an element of harassment or vindictiveness?

    – trognanders
    2 days ago






  • 9





    If you were to respond at all, wouldn't it be better to just ask for evidence of a debt and nothing more? The more you say the more chance there is that you'll give them something that'll help them later (like an acknowledgement that training and software licences existed at all) or make a mistake of some kind. And if they don't respond to a question like that, well, maybe that's useful if you live somewhere where courts don't like litigants who refuse to talk to each other first.

    – Alex Hayward
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @Neinstein For me its not about approval/disapproval of the claim, but instead engaging vs not engaging the ex-company in the first place. By engaging them your are acknowledging that they do have a claim (regardless of its legitimacy), and doing so empowers them to press you more for a resolution in their favor. (remember that this is a bogus claim in the first place so the ex-company is not acting rationally from the start - and this will not change no matter how rational you are)

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 3





    @PeterM Stating that you will not do something and the reason you are not obligated to do so cannot be construed as legitimizing a claim in any halfway reasonable court of law. The example text is very clear and explicit on these points. Misconstruing it as you describe is so obviously wrong that I would not expect even a court to be able to screw up that badly.

    – jpmc26
    yesterday














34












34








34








I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?




Right. It's a bluff to see if you would pay anyway.




Should I respond that I'm not paying, or just ignore this?




I would respond once and only once with something like:



"Since my employment agreement said nothing about being required to reimburse any training expenses if I left, I will not do so.



The AutoCAD license was installed and remains on a company computer. The computer was returned when I left. I am not responsible for the cost of this license and will not provide any reimbursement."



Then I would not respond to subsequent letters, although I would keep copies of everything.



In the unlikely event you are sued, make sure you have all the relevant facts and copies of all correspondence. I have a hard time imagining they would waste their time doing so, and an even harder time imagining they could win.






share|improve this answer














I can't seriously be held responsible for this, right?




Right. It's a bluff to see if you would pay anyway.




Should I respond that I'm not paying, or just ignore this?




I would respond once and only once with something like:



"Since my employment agreement said nothing about being required to reimburse any training expenses if I left, I will not do so.



The AutoCAD license was installed and remains on a company computer. The computer was returned when I left. I am not responsible for the cost of this license and will not provide any reimbursement."



Then I would not respond to subsequent letters, although I would keep copies of everything.



In the unlikely event you are sued, make sure you have all the relevant facts and copies of all correspondence. I have a hard time imagining they would waste their time doing so, and an even harder time imagining they could win.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









Joe StrazzereJoe Strazzere

253k1287321043




253k1287321043







  • 29





    In a case like this where the company is so out of line, is it even in the OPs interest to respond? I sort of feel that doing so adds some legitimacy to the claim by acknowledging that it exists in the first place.

    – Peter M
    2 days ago











  • Is it possible that besides a desire for repayment, there is also an element of harassment or vindictiveness?

    – trognanders
    2 days ago






  • 9





    If you were to respond at all, wouldn't it be better to just ask for evidence of a debt and nothing more? The more you say the more chance there is that you'll give them something that'll help them later (like an acknowledgement that training and software licences existed at all) or make a mistake of some kind. And if they don't respond to a question like that, well, maybe that's useful if you live somewhere where courts don't like litigants who refuse to talk to each other first.

    – Alex Hayward
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @Neinstein For me its not about approval/disapproval of the claim, but instead engaging vs not engaging the ex-company in the first place. By engaging them your are acknowledging that they do have a claim (regardless of its legitimacy), and doing so empowers them to press you more for a resolution in their favor. (remember that this is a bogus claim in the first place so the ex-company is not acting rationally from the start - and this will not change no matter how rational you are)

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 3





    @PeterM Stating that you will not do something and the reason you are not obligated to do so cannot be construed as legitimizing a claim in any halfway reasonable court of law. The example text is very clear and explicit on these points. Misconstruing it as you describe is so obviously wrong that I would not expect even a court to be able to screw up that badly.

    – jpmc26
    yesterday













  • 29





    In a case like this where the company is so out of line, is it even in the OPs interest to respond? I sort of feel that doing so adds some legitimacy to the claim by acknowledging that it exists in the first place.

    – Peter M
    2 days ago











  • Is it possible that besides a desire for repayment, there is also an element of harassment or vindictiveness?

    – trognanders
    2 days ago






  • 9





    If you were to respond at all, wouldn't it be better to just ask for evidence of a debt and nothing more? The more you say the more chance there is that you'll give them something that'll help them later (like an acknowledgement that training and software licences existed at all) or make a mistake of some kind. And if they don't respond to a question like that, well, maybe that's useful if you live somewhere where courts don't like litigants who refuse to talk to each other first.

    – Alex Hayward
    2 days ago






  • 1





    @Neinstein For me its not about approval/disapproval of the claim, but instead engaging vs not engaging the ex-company in the first place. By engaging them your are acknowledging that they do have a claim (regardless of its legitimacy), and doing so empowers them to press you more for a resolution in their favor. (remember that this is a bogus claim in the first place so the ex-company is not acting rationally from the start - and this will not change no matter how rational you are)

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 3





    @PeterM Stating that you will not do something and the reason you are not obligated to do so cannot be construed as legitimizing a claim in any halfway reasonable court of law. The example text is very clear and explicit on these points. Misconstruing it as you describe is so obviously wrong that I would not expect even a court to be able to screw up that badly.

    – jpmc26
    yesterday








29




29





In a case like this where the company is so out of line, is it even in the OPs interest to respond? I sort of feel that doing so adds some legitimacy to the claim by acknowledging that it exists in the first place.

– Peter M
2 days ago





In a case like this where the company is so out of line, is it even in the OPs interest to respond? I sort of feel that doing so adds some legitimacy to the claim by acknowledging that it exists in the first place.

– Peter M
2 days ago













Is it possible that besides a desire for repayment, there is also an element of harassment or vindictiveness?

– trognanders
2 days ago





Is it possible that besides a desire for repayment, there is also an element of harassment or vindictiveness?

– trognanders
2 days ago




9




9





If you were to respond at all, wouldn't it be better to just ask for evidence of a debt and nothing more? The more you say the more chance there is that you'll give them something that'll help them later (like an acknowledgement that training and software licences existed at all) or make a mistake of some kind. And if they don't respond to a question like that, well, maybe that's useful if you live somewhere where courts don't like litigants who refuse to talk to each other first.

– Alex Hayward
2 days ago





If you were to respond at all, wouldn't it be better to just ask for evidence of a debt and nothing more? The more you say the more chance there is that you'll give them something that'll help them later (like an acknowledgement that training and software licences existed at all) or make a mistake of some kind. And if they don't respond to a question like that, well, maybe that's useful if you live somewhere where courts don't like litigants who refuse to talk to each other first.

– Alex Hayward
2 days ago




1




1





@Neinstein For me its not about approval/disapproval of the claim, but instead engaging vs not engaging the ex-company in the first place. By engaging them your are acknowledging that they do have a claim (regardless of its legitimacy), and doing so empowers them to press you more for a resolution in their favor. (remember that this is a bogus claim in the first place so the ex-company is not acting rationally from the start - and this will not change no matter how rational you are)

– Peter M
yesterday





@Neinstein For me its not about approval/disapproval of the claim, but instead engaging vs not engaging the ex-company in the first place. By engaging them your are acknowledging that they do have a claim (regardless of its legitimacy), and doing so empowers them to press you more for a resolution in their favor. (remember that this is a bogus claim in the first place so the ex-company is not acting rationally from the start - and this will not change no matter how rational you are)

– Peter M
yesterday




3




3





@PeterM Stating that you will not do something and the reason you are not obligated to do so cannot be construed as legitimizing a claim in any halfway reasonable court of law. The example text is very clear and explicit on these points. Misconstruing it as you describe is so obviously wrong that I would not expect even a court to be able to screw up that badly.

– jpmc26
yesterday






@PeterM Stating that you will not do something and the reason you are not obligated to do so cannot be construed as legitimizing a claim in any halfway reasonable court of law. The example text is very clear and explicit on these points. Misconstruing it as you describe is so obviously wrong that I would not expect even a court to be able to screw up that badly.

– jpmc26
yesterday












13














You don't have to do a thing, but there are ways to handle it. In some countries like the US, it may be better to stay silent or ask a lawyer (which costs!), because the law can be very harsh and expensive if done wrong. If you're more sure of writing, then you can probably sort this out yourself.



I'll sum up what I'd expect is a good approach, but you may choose to do nothing and "wait and see", or ask a lawyer, in some places.



How the law sees it



When a business enters a contract, it is assumed that they know what they are doing. A private individual often gets more protection, because they often don't. (Which is why consumer and employment law often strongly favour the consumer/employee).



Your company knew when they employed you, that they wanted certain conditions as part of that employment. They knew you could leave on certain terms, and accepted that. In fact, they probably told you (dictated to you?) what those terms would be. They actually chose them, themselves.



When they bought you software, or trained you, they knew you had that right to leave. If they wanted to make training or purchases conditional on you staying, or chargeable if you didn't, then they had every chance in the world to say if that mattered to them. They could have written it in the original contract (it was only 4 months ago so they surely had some idea of what they'd do!). They could have asked you at the time to sign an additional agreement that you wouldn't leave for a year or would repay if you did, in return for this stuff they were about to do. They didn't do any of that, and they had the choice, the ability, and the awareness to do so. So they can't now look to you, to cover up their failure. They knew they had given you a right to leave without repaying, when they did all that, so they can hardly expect you to voluntarily repay if you take them up on the rights they signed with you.



Put differently, every contract carries risk. If you want to not have a risk, you don't agree to contracts that have the risks in them, that you aren't willing to agree to - much less author those contracts. They didn't want to expose themselves to a risk of investing in someone, only to have them leave after 4 months? Then they shouldn't have signed a contract by which they voluntarily put themselves in that position with their employee.



A second way a court will look at it, for the license at least, is to ask if the company actually lost anything. Presumably they hired you because they needed someone to do work that would involve AutoCAD. They surely didn't buy it as a luxury! So presumably that work still exists. So they'll be able to use the license for their next hire.



After all, every employee who walks, could be sued if that basis were valid. You walked out after a week, and your job was inputting data from invoices? Well, we had to take time to recruit you, train you, get you a desk and chair, pay for the floor space you took up, pay for a computer and those internal support time you needed from IT to get it working.....



No. Just no. It doesn't work that way.



What to do



As I said, you may choose to wait, or get advice. But if you intended to write, you would want to write in a way that has a high chance of shutting them up :)



I tend to write strongly, and you may not feel comfortable doing so (and it may in fact be very unwise in some countries or situations to do so, or to not get legal advice). I'm also used to UK laws and legal frameworks where writing this way is a pretty safe bet, which might not apply where you are.



But if you did want to write or handle it yourself, and felt it was safe and you were confident to do so, this is roughly what I'd say, so you can pick the key points and use them as you feel best.



Something like this:




"Dear X,



I am in receipt of your letter of Xx March 2019, which looks to me like a simple attempt to extort money without good grounds.



I was employed under a contract. That contract was authored by Y Inc. itself, and the terms were chosen by and agreeable to Y Inc. The contract stated my rights to leave, and what happens when I leave. I attach a copy for your reference.



If you believe that the contract states that I must pay any sums on training or software you bought as an employer, I would appreciate you citing the paragraphs that contain those agreements. You will find no such agreement, of course, which means I do not expect to be troubled by you again on this spurious claim.



Having set out the contractual situation, I now consider this matter permanently closed. I reserve all of my rights to consider any further attempt to seek payment of this kind, or other adverse action taken in lieu, as likely to be an extortion attempt or other illegal action, and reserve my rights to seek any combination of legal advice, compensation or to report it as a police matter. I may also choose to ignore unfounded claims, if any.



Kindly do not write again.



Signed, Z."




[The "other adverse action" and "other illegal action" is in case they try to blacken your name or make harmful claims in revenge, which some might consider. But I haven't said that explicitly since we don't need to give them foolish ideas. Also note the thin line in defamation law - it is usually very safe to say "It looks to me like X", because that's a true statement of honestly held opinion, but it's much less safe to say "it is X", which claims a true statement absolutely]






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    IMHO stating "which looks to me like a simple attempt to extort money without good grounds" is both unnecessary and potentially damaging to the OP as it is pure speculation and will only act to aggravate the ex-company - even though you have a disclaimer. Personally I would leave out all speculation and only state provable facts.

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 2





    This, or ignoring it, are the only correct responses. These people are assholes and need to be told off, without actually using the word "asshole". @PeterM - "looks to me" is the clause that gets you out of jail here. You don't make a factual claim, you report your interpretation.

    – Tom
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Peter M - I agree. Except, when certain of my ground and wanting them to have no illusion how it may be interpreted, it can be useful to name it for what it is (or at least, what it seems to oneself to be, to avoid accusations of defaming!). It tends to have a sobering effect and suppress the urge to go full-on idiot by a hotheaded and bullying owner/manager/director, and shows that you may bite back and they may be treading on dangerous ground. Also much more likely they'll seek advice too, in which case a lawyer will tell them you're basically right, which will help calm it a lot.

    – Stilez
    yesterday







  • 1





    @Tom Compare telling a mother "Your kid is ugly" vs "I think your kid is ugly". While the latter may have the "get out of jail card" it is going to be hard for the mother to initially differentiate between the two statements. Thus creating unnecessary bad feeling (and giving the mother reason to do something stupid) . And by knowingly doing so to the ex-company you are stooping to their level of asshole-ness. Thats why IMHO you should always keep it professional on you end and keep your actions above reproach.

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Stilez While the company will eventually get a reality check I think that speculating (and it is speculating - as you have no idea what is going on at the ex-company) on their motives will act to push their buttons and give them license to go even more full on idiot in the short term. For all you know you may encounter a manager that says "screw what the lawyer advises - I want to see this prick in court just because he is pissing me off". So its not the destination I am trying to avoid, but an un-desirable and unnecessary side trip to legal hell.

    – Peter M
    yesterday















13














You don't have to do a thing, but there are ways to handle it. In some countries like the US, it may be better to stay silent or ask a lawyer (which costs!), because the law can be very harsh and expensive if done wrong. If you're more sure of writing, then you can probably sort this out yourself.



I'll sum up what I'd expect is a good approach, but you may choose to do nothing and "wait and see", or ask a lawyer, in some places.



How the law sees it



When a business enters a contract, it is assumed that they know what they are doing. A private individual often gets more protection, because they often don't. (Which is why consumer and employment law often strongly favour the consumer/employee).



Your company knew when they employed you, that they wanted certain conditions as part of that employment. They knew you could leave on certain terms, and accepted that. In fact, they probably told you (dictated to you?) what those terms would be. They actually chose them, themselves.



When they bought you software, or trained you, they knew you had that right to leave. If they wanted to make training or purchases conditional on you staying, or chargeable if you didn't, then they had every chance in the world to say if that mattered to them. They could have written it in the original contract (it was only 4 months ago so they surely had some idea of what they'd do!). They could have asked you at the time to sign an additional agreement that you wouldn't leave for a year or would repay if you did, in return for this stuff they were about to do. They didn't do any of that, and they had the choice, the ability, and the awareness to do so. So they can't now look to you, to cover up their failure. They knew they had given you a right to leave without repaying, when they did all that, so they can hardly expect you to voluntarily repay if you take them up on the rights they signed with you.



Put differently, every contract carries risk. If you want to not have a risk, you don't agree to contracts that have the risks in them, that you aren't willing to agree to - much less author those contracts. They didn't want to expose themselves to a risk of investing in someone, only to have them leave after 4 months? Then they shouldn't have signed a contract by which they voluntarily put themselves in that position with their employee.



A second way a court will look at it, for the license at least, is to ask if the company actually lost anything. Presumably they hired you because they needed someone to do work that would involve AutoCAD. They surely didn't buy it as a luxury! So presumably that work still exists. So they'll be able to use the license for their next hire.



After all, every employee who walks, could be sued if that basis were valid. You walked out after a week, and your job was inputting data from invoices? Well, we had to take time to recruit you, train you, get you a desk and chair, pay for the floor space you took up, pay for a computer and those internal support time you needed from IT to get it working.....



No. Just no. It doesn't work that way.



What to do



As I said, you may choose to wait, or get advice. But if you intended to write, you would want to write in a way that has a high chance of shutting them up :)



I tend to write strongly, and you may not feel comfortable doing so (and it may in fact be very unwise in some countries or situations to do so, or to not get legal advice). I'm also used to UK laws and legal frameworks where writing this way is a pretty safe bet, which might not apply where you are.



But if you did want to write or handle it yourself, and felt it was safe and you were confident to do so, this is roughly what I'd say, so you can pick the key points and use them as you feel best.



Something like this:




"Dear X,



I am in receipt of your letter of Xx March 2019, which looks to me like a simple attempt to extort money without good grounds.



I was employed under a contract. That contract was authored by Y Inc. itself, and the terms were chosen by and agreeable to Y Inc. The contract stated my rights to leave, and what happens when I leave. I attach a copy for your reference.



If you believe that the contract states that I must pay any sums on training or software you bought as an employer, I would appreciate you citing the paragraphs that contain those agreements. You will find no such agreement, of course, which means I do not expect to be troubled by you again on this spurious claim.



Having set out the contractual situation, I now consider this matter permanently closed. I reserve all of my rights to consider any further attempt to seek payment of this kind, or other adverse action taken in lieu, as likely to be an extortion attempt or other illegal action, and reserve my rights to seek any combination of legal advice, compensation or to report it as a police matter. I may also choose to ignore unfounded claims, if any.



Kindly do not write again.



Signed, Z."




[The "other adverse action" and "other illegal action" is in case they try to blacken your name or make harmful claims in revenge, which some might consider. But I haven't said that explicitly since we don't need to give them foolish ideas. Also note the thin line in defamation law - it is usually very safe to say "It looks to me like X", because that's a true statement of honestly held opinion, but it's much less safe to say "it is X", which claims a true statement absolutely]






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    IMHO stating "which looks to me like a simple attempt to extort money without good grounds" is both unnecessary and potentially damaging to the OP as it is pure speculation and will only act to aggravate the ex-company - even though you have a disclaimer. Personally I would leave out all speculation and only state provable facts.

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 2





    This, or ignoring it, are the only correct responses. These people are assholes and need to be told off, without actually using the word "asshole". @PeterM - "looks to me" is the clause that gets you out of jail here. You don't make a factual claim, you report your interpretation.

    – Tom
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Peter M - I agree. Except, when certain of my ground and wanting them to have no illusion how it may be interpreted, it can be useful to name it for what it is (or at least, what it seems to oneself to be, to avoid accusations of defaming!). It tends to have a sobering effect and suppress the urge to go full-on idiot by a hotheaded and bullying owner/manager/director, and shows that you may bite back and they may be treading on dangerous ground. Also much more likely they'll seek advice too, in which case a lawyer will tell them you're basically right, which will help calm it a lot.

    – Stilez
    yesterday







  • 1





    @Tom Compare telling a mother "Your kid is ugly" vs "I think your kid is ugly". While the latter may have the "get out of jail card" it is going to be hard for the mother to initially differentiate between the two statements. Thus creating unnecessary bad feeling (and giving the mother reason to do something stupid) . And by knowingly doing so to the ex-company you are stooping to their level of asshole-ness. Thats why IMHO you should always keep it professional on you end and keep your actions above reproach.

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Stilez While the company will eventually get a reality check I think that speculating (and it is speculating - as you have no idea what is going on at the ex-company) on their motives will act to push their buttons and give them license to go even more full on idiot in the short term. For all you know you may encounter a manager that says "screw what the lawyer advises - I want to see this prick in court just because he is pissing me off". So its not the destination I am trying to avoid, but an un-desirable and unnecessary side trip to legal hell.

    – Peter M
    yesterday













13












13








13







You don't have to do a thing, but there are ways to handle it. In some countries like the US, it may be better to stay silent or ask a lawyer (which costs!), because the law can be very harsh and expensive if done wrong. If you're more sure of writing, then you can probably sort this out yourself.



I'll sum up what I'd expect is a good approach, but you may choose to do nothing and "wait and see", or ask a lawyer, in some places.



How the law sees it



When a business enters a contract, it is assumed that they know what they are doing. A private individual often gets more protection, because they often don't. (Which is why consumer and employment law often strongly favour the consumer/employee).



Your company knew when they employed you, that they wanted certain conditions as part of that employment. They knew you could leave on certain terms, and accepted that. In fact, they probably told you (dictated to you?) what those terms would be. They actually chose them, themselves.



When they bought you software, or trained you, they knew you had that right to leave. If they wanted to make training or purchases conditional on you staying, or chargeable if you didn't, then they had every chance in the world to say if that mattered to them. They could have written it in the original contract (it was only 4 months ago so they surely had some idea of what they'd do!). They could have asked you at the time to sign an additional agreement that you wouldn't leave for a year or would repay if you did, in return for this stuff they were about to do. They didn't do any of that, and they had the choice, the ability, and the awareness to do so. So they can't now look to you, to cover up their failure. They knew they had given you a right to leave without repaying, when they did all that, so they can hardly expect you to voluntarily repay if you take them up on the rights they signed with you.



Put differently, every contract carries risk. If you want to not have a risk, you don't agree to contracts that have the risks in them, that you aren't willing to agree to - much less author those contracts. They didn't want to expose themselves to a risk of investing in someone, only to have them leave after 4 months? Then they shouldn't have signed a contract by which they voluntarily put themselves in that position with their employee.



A second way a court will look at it, for the license at least, is to ask if the company actually lost anything. Presumably they hired you because they needed someone to do work that would involve AutoCAD. They surely didn't buy it as a luxury! So presumably that work still exists. So they'll be able to use the license for their next hire.



After all, every employee who walks, could be sued if that basis were valid. You walked out after a week, and your job was inputting data from invoices? Well, we had to take time to recruit you, train you, get you a desk and chair, pay for the floor space you took up, pay for a computer and those internal support time you needed from IT to get it working.....



No. Just no. It doesn't work that way.



What to do



As I said, you may choose to wait, or get advice. But if you intended to write, you would want to write in a way that has a high chance of shutting them up :)



I tend to write strongly, and you may not feel comfortable doing so (and it may in fact be very unwise in some countries or situations to do so, or to not get legal advice). I'm also used to UK laws and legal frameworks where writing this way is a pretty safe bet, which might not apply where you are.



But if you did want to write or handle it yourself, and felt it was safe and you were confident to do so, this is roughly what I'd say, so you can pick the key points and use them as you feel best.



Something like this:




"Dear X,



I am in receipt of your letter of Xx March 2019, which looks to me like a simple attempt to extort money without good grounds.



I was employed under a contract. That contract was authored by Y Inc. itself, and the terms were chosen by and agreeable to Y Inc. The contract stated my rights to leave, and what happens when I leave. I attach a copy for your reference.



If you believe that the contract states that I must pay any sums on training or software you bought as an employer, I would appreciate you citing the paragraphs that contain those agreements. You will find no such agreement, of course, which means I do not expect to be troubled by you again on this spurious claim.



Having set out the contractual situation, I now consider this matter permanently closed. I reserve all of my rights to consider any further attempt to seek payment of this kind, or other adverse action taken in lieu, as likely to be an extortion attempt or other illegal action, and reserve my rights to seek any combination of legal advice, compensation or to report it as a police matter. I may also choose to ignore unfounded claims, if any.



Kindly do not write again.



Signed, Z."




[The "other adverse action" and "other illegal action" is in case they try to blacken your name or make harmful claims in revenge, which some might consider. But I haven't said that explicitly since we don't need to give them foolish ideas. Also note the thin line in defamation law - it is usually very safe to say "It looks to me like X", because that's a true statement of honestly held opinion, but it's much less safe to say "it is X", which claims a true statement absolutely]






share|improve this answer















You don't have to do a thing, but there are ways to handle it. In some countries like the US, it may be better to stay silent or ask a lawyer (which costs!), because the law can be very harsh and expensive if done wrong. If you're more sure of writing, then you can probably sort this out yourself.



I'll sum up what I'd expect is a good approach, but you may choose to do nothing and "wait and see", or ask a lawyer, in some places.



How the law sees it



When a business enters a contract, it is assumed that they know what they are doing. A private individual often gets more protection, because they often don't. (Which is why consumer and employment law often strongly favour the consumer/employee).



Your company knew when they employed you, that they wanted certain conditions as part of that employment. They knew you could leave on certain terms, and accepted that. In fact, they probably told you (dictated to you?) what those terms would be. They actually chose them, themselves.



When they bought you software, or trained you, they knew you had that right to leave. If they wanted to make training or purchases conditional on you staying, or chargeable if you didn't, then they had every chance in the world to say if that mattered to them. They could have written it in the original contract (it was only 4 months ago so they surely had some idea of what they'd do!). They could have asked you at the time to sign an additional agreement that you wouldn't leave for a year or would repay if you did, in return for this stuff they were about to do. They didn't do any of that, and they had the choice, the ability, and the awareness to do so. So they can't now look to you, to cover up their failure. They knew they had given you a right to leave without repaying, when they did all that, so they can hardly expect you to voluntarily repay if you take them up on the rights they signed with you.



Put differently, every contract carries risk. If you want to not have a risk, you don't agree to contracts that have the risks in them, that you aren't willing to agree to - much less author those contracts. They didn't want to expose themselves to a risk of investing in someone, only to have them leave after 4 months? Then they shouldn't have signed a contract by which they voluntarily put themselves in that position with their employee.



A second way a court will look at it, for the license at least, is to ask if the company actually lost anything. Presumably they hired you because they needed someone to do work that would involve AutoCAD. They surely didn't buy it as a luxury! So presumably that work still exists. So they'll be able to use the license for their next hire.



After all, every employee who walks, could be sued if that basis were valid. You walked out after a week, and your job was inputting data from invoices? Well, we had to take time to recruit you, train you, get you a desk and chair, pay for the floor space you took up, pay for a computer and those internal support time you needed from IT to get it working.....



No. Just no. It doesn't work that way.



What to do



As I said, you may choose to wait, or get advice. But if you intended to write, you would want to write in a way that has a high chance of shutting them up :)



I tend to write strongly, and you may not feel comfortable doing so (and it may in fact be very unwise in some countries or situations to do so, or to not get legal advice). I'm also used to UK laws and legal frameworks where writing this way is a pretty safe bet, which might not apply where you are.



But if you did want to write or handle it yourself, and felt it was safe and you were confident to do so, this is roughly what I'd say, so you can pick the key points and use them as you feel best.



Something like this:




"Dear X,



I am in receipt of your letter of Xx March 2019, which looks to me like a simple attempt to extort money without good grounds.



I was employed under a contract. That contract was authored by Y Inc. itself, and the terms were chosen by and agreeable to Y Inc. The contract stated my rights to leave, and what happens when I leave. I attach a copy for your reference.



If you believe that the contract states that I must pay any sums on training or software you bought as an employer, I would appreciate you citing the paragraphs that contain those agreements. You will find no such agreement, of course, which means I do not expect to be troubled by you again on this spurious claim.



Having set out the contractual situation, I now consider this matter permanently closed. I reserve all of my rights to consider any further attempt to seek payment of this kind, or other adverse action taken in lieu, as likely to be an extortion attempt or other illegal action, and reserve my rights to seek any combination of legal advice, compensation or to report it as a police matter. I may also choose to ignore unfounded claims, if any.



Kindly do not write again.



Signed, Z."




[The "other adverse action" and "other illegal action" is in case they try to blacken your name or make harmful claims in revenge, which some might consider. But I haven't said that explicitly since we don't need to give them foolish ideas. Also note the thin line in defamation law - it is usually very safe to say "It looks to me like X", because that's a true statement of honestly held opinion, but it's much less safe to say "it is X", which claims a true statement absolutely]







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday

























answered yesterday









StilezStilez

2,5251414




2,5251414







  • 1





    IMHO stating "which looks to me like a simple attempt to extort money without good grounds" is both unnecessary and potentially damaging to the OP as it is pure speculation and will only act to aggravate the ex-company - even though you have a disclaimer. Personally I would leave out all speculation and only state provable facts.

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 2





    This, or ignoring it, are the only correct responses. These people are assholes and need to be told off, without actually using the word "asshole". @PeterM - "looks to me" is the clause that gets you out of jail here. You don't make a factual claim, you report your interpretation.

    – Tom
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Peter M - I agree. Except, when certain of my ground and wanting them to have no illusion how it may be interpreted, it can be useful to name it for what it is (or at least, what it seems to oneself to be, to avoid accusations of defaming!). It tends to have a sobering effect and suppress the urge to go full-on idiot by a hotheaded and bullying owner/manager/director, and shows that you may bite back and they may be treading on dangerous ground. Also much more likely they'll seek advice too, in which case a lawyer will tell them you're basically right, which will help calm it a lot.

    – Stilez
    yesterday







  • 1





    @Tom Compare telling a mother "Your kid is ugly" vs "I think your kid is ugly". While the latter may have the "get out of jail card" it is going to be hard for the mother to initially differentiate between the two statements. Thus creating unnecessary bad feeling (and giving the mother reason to do something stupid) . And by knowingly doing so to the ex-company you are stooping to their level of asshole-ness. Thats why IMHO you should always keep it professional on you end and keep your actions above reproach.

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Stilez While the company will eventually get a reality check I think that speculating (and it is speculating - as you have no idea what is going on at the ex-company) on their motives will act to push their buttons and give them license to go even more full on idiot in the short term. For all you know you may encounter a manager that says "screw what the lawyer advises - I want to see this prick in court just because he is pissing me off". So its not the destination I am trying to avoid, but an un-desirable and unnecessary side trip to legal hell.

    – Peter M
    yesterday












  • 1





    IMHO stating "which looks to me like a simple attempt to extort money without good grounds" is both unnecessary and potentially damaging to the OP as it is pure speculation and will only act to aggravate the ex-company - even though you have a disclaimer. Personally I would leave out all speculation and only state provable facts.

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 2





    This, or ignoring it, are the only correct responses. These people are assholes and need to be told off, without actually using the word "asshole". @PeterM - "looks to me" is the clause that gets you out of jail here. You don't make a factual claim, you report your interpretation.

    – Tom
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Peter M - I agree. Except, when certain of my ground and wanting them to have no illusion how it may be interpreted, it can be useful to name it for what it is (or at least, what it seems to oneself to be, to avoid accusations of defaming!). It tends to have a sobering effect and suppress the urge to go full-on idiot by a hotheaded and bullying owner/manager/director, and shows that you may bite back and they may be treading on dangerous ground. Also much more likely they'll seek advice too, in which case a lawyer will tell them you're basically right, which will help calm it a lot.

    – Stilez
    yesterday







  • 1





    @Tom Compare telling a mother "Your kid is ugly" vs "I think your kid is ugly". While the latter may have the "get out of jail card" it is going to be hard for the mother to initially differentiate between the two statements. Thus creating unnecessary bad feeling (and giving the mother reason to do something stupid) . And by knowingly doing so to the ex-company you are stooping to their level of asshole-ness. Thats why IMHO you should always keep it professional on you end and keep your actions above reproach.

    – Peter M
    yesterday






  • 1





    @Stilez While the company will eventually get a reality check I think that speculating (and it is speculating - as you have no idea what is going on at the ex-company) on their motives will act to push their buttons and give them license to go even more full on idiot in the short term. For all you know you may encounter a manager that says "screw what the lawyer advises - I want to see this prick in court just because he is pissing me off". So its not the destination I am trying to avoid, but an un-desirable and unnecessary side trip to legal hell.

    – Peter M
    yesterday







1




1





IMHO stating "which looks to me like a simple attempt to extort money without good grounds" is both unnecessary and potentially damaging to the OP as it is pure speculation and will only act to aggravate the ex-company - even though you have a disclaimer. Personally I would leave out all speculation and only state provable facts.

– Peter M
yesterday





IMHO stating "which looks to me like a simple attempt to extort money without good grounds" is both unnecessary and potentially damaging to the OP as it is pure speculation and will only act to aggravate the ex-company - even though you have a disclaimer. Personally I would leave out all speculation and only state provable facts.

– Peter M
yesterday




2




2





This, or ignoring it, are the only correct responses. These people are assholes and need to be told off, without actually using the word "asshole". @PeterM - "looks to me" is the clause that gets you out of jail here. You don't make a factual claim, you report your interpretation.

– Tom
yesterday





This, or ignoring it, are the only correct responses. These people are assholes and need to be told off, without actually using the word "asshole". @PeterM - "looks to me" is the clause that gets you out of jail here. You don't make a factual claim, you report your interpretation.

– Tom
yesterday




1




1





@Peter M - I agree. Except, when certain of my ground and wanting them to have no illusion how it may be interpreted, it can be useful to name it for what it is (or at least, what it seems to oneself to be, to avoid accusations of defaming!). It tends to have a sobering effect and suppress the urge to go full-on idiot by a hotheaded and bullying owner/manager/director, and shows that you may bite back and they may be treading on dangerous ground. Also much more likely they'll seek advice too, in which case a lawyer will tell them you're basically right, which will help calm it a lot.

– Stilez
yesterday






@Peter M - I agree. Except, when certain of my ground and wanting them to have no illusion how it may be interpreted, it can be useful to name it for what it is (or at least, what it seems to oneself to be, to avoid accusations of defaming!). It tends to have a sobering effect and suppress the urge to go full-on idiot by a hotheaded and bullying owner/manager/director, and shows that you may bite back and they may be treading on dangerous ground. Also much more likely they'll seek advice too, in which case a lawyer will tell them you're basically right, which will help calm it a lot.

– Stilez
yesterday





1




1





@Tom Compare telling a mother "Your kid is ugly" vs "I think your kid is ugly". While the latter may have the "get out of jail card" it is going to be hard for the mother to initially differentiate between the two statements. Thus creating unnecessary bad feeling (and giving the mother reason to do something stupid) . And by knowingly doing so to the ex-company you are stooping to their level of asshole-ness. Thats why IMHO you should always keep it professional on you end and keep your actions above reproach.

– Peter M
yesterday





@Tom Compare telling a mother "Your kid is ugly" vs "I think your kid is ugly". While the latter may have the "get out of jail card" it is going to be hard for the mother to initially differentiate between the two statements. Thus creating unnecessary bad feeling (and giving the mother reason to do something stupid) . And by knowingly doing so to the ex-company you are stooping to their level of asshole-ness. Thats why IMHO you should always keep it professional on you end and keep your actions above reproach.

– Peter M
yesterday




1




1





@Stilez While the company will eventually get a reality check I think that speculating (and it is speculating - as you have no idea what is going on at the ex-company) on their motives will act to push their buttons and give them license to go even more full on idiot in the short term. For all you know you may encounter a manager that says "screw what the lawyer advises - I want to see this prick in court just because he is pissing me off". So its not the destination I am trying to avoid, but an un-desirable and unnecessary side trip to legal hell.

– Peter M
yesterday





@Stilez While the company will eventually get a reality check I think that speculating (and it is speculating - as you have no idea what is going on at the ex-company) on their motives will act to push their buttons and give them license to go even more full on idiot in the short term. For all you know you may encounter a manager that says "screw what the lawyer advises - I want to see this prick in court just because he is pissing me off". So its not the destination I am trying to avoid, but an un-desirable and unnecessary side trip to legal hell.

– Peter M
yesterday











-4














If you have no documentation stating that you owe them this money (in your contract/employment agreement/etc), then tell them as such: "I never agreed to this, go shove it" (depending on how you feel about this company, I might be tempted to use those exact words) and do not respond to any further communique. If they continue to "shout into the void", as it were, you may want to contact a lawyer regarding harassment.




If you feel like being extra cheeky though, you may want to suggest, at least, if you have to pay $1500 for the AutoCAD subscription, then it should be your property. Issue them a notice to have your AutoCAD license transferred to you on threat of a lawsuit for stolen property, and see what they say. Of course, this is likely to not work out in the way you hope it will, so only do it if you feel like being cheeky and having some fun with a possible potential downside cost down the road. I don't actually recommend doing this, I just think it would be funny to hear their response.






share|improve this answer


















  • 19





    I think this advice is entertaining, but so so unprofessional. Be better than them (i.e. not a child). If you're going to stop responding to them after telling them to "shove it", then just don't respond to begin with. What do you aim to gain by starting a confrontation? Same with the AutoCAD license - so you ask them to transfer the license to you and they agree. Now what? You are still out $1500.

    – Catsunami
    2 days ago











  • Agreed cheeky is all but never the professional answer. There is some professional merit though in the concept that if they expect someone to pay for resources they purchased for them, those resources must be transferred or at minimum prorated back for the unusable portion.

    – John Spiegel
    2 days ago






  • 20





    Yeah, the AutoCAD thing in particular is horrible advice. If the boss wants to screw you over, they'll instantly agree. Suddenly, you went from "Not legally required to pay anything" to "Agreeing to buy an instance of AutoCAD for $1500 that you weren't planning on." After all, it doesn't cost the boss anything to take your $1500 and just buy another license.

    – Kevin
    2 days ago











  • @Kevin I agree that that is horrible advice. As a CAD administrator, though, it would be really difficult and painstaking to transfer a license. While you can give anyone a product key, it is tied to a contract - a contract that likely has multiple Autodesk licenses. To really transfer ownership would probably involve direct assistance from Autodesk... good luck with that.

    – Evan Elrod
    2 days ago















-4














If you have no documentation stating that you owe them this money (in your contract/employment agreement/etc), then tell them as such: "I never agreed to this, go shove it" (depending on how you feel about this company, I might be tempted to use those exact words) and do not respond to any further communique. If they continue to "shout into the void", as it were, you may want to contact a lawyer regarding harassment.




If you feel like being extra cheeky though, you may want to suggest, at least, if you have to pay $1500 for the AutoCAD subscription, then it should be your property. Issue them a notice to have your AutoCAD license transferred to you on threat of a lawsuit for stolen property, and see what they say. Of course, this is likely to not work out in the way you hope it will, so only do it if you feel like being cheeky and having some fun with a possible potential downside cost down the road. I don't actually recommend doing this, I just think it would be funny to hear their response.






share|improve this answer


















  • 19





    I think this advice is entertaining, but so so unprofessional. Be better than them (i.e. not a child). If you're going to stop responding to them after telling them to "shove it", then just don't respond to begin with. What do you aim to gain by starting a confrontation? Same with the AutoCAD license - so you ask them to transfer the license to you and they agree. Now what? You are still out $1500.

    – Catsunami
    2 days ago











  • Agreed cheeky is all but never the professional answer. There is some professional merit though in the concept that if they expect someone to pay for resources they purchased for them, those resources must be transferred or at minimum prorated back for the unusable portion.

    – John Spiegel
    2 days ago






  • 20





    Yeah, the AutoCAD thing in particular is horrible advice. If the boss wants to screw you over, they'll instantly agree. Suddenly, you went from "Not legally required to pay anything" to "Agreeing to buy an instance of AutoCAD for $1500 that you weren't planning on." After all, it doesn't cost the boss anything to take your $1500 and just buy another license.

    – Kevin
    2 days ago











  • @Kevin I agree that that is horrible advice. As a CAD administrator, though, it would be really difficult and painstaking to transfer a license. While you can give anyone a product key, it is tied to a contract - a contract that likely has multiple Autodesk licenses. To really transfer ownership would probably involve direct assistance from Autodesk... good luck with that.

    – Evan Elrod
    2 days ago













-4












-4








-4







If you have no documentation stating that you owe them this money (in your contract/employment agreement/etc), then tell them as such: "I never agreed to this, go shove it" (depending on how you feel about this company, I might be tempted to use those exact words) and do not respond to any further communique. If they continue to "shout into the void", as it were, you may want to contact a lawyer regarding harassment.




If you feel like being extra cheeky though, you may want to suggest, at least, if you have to pay $1500 for the AutoCAD subscription, then it should be your property. Issue them a notice to have your AutoCAD license transferred to you on threat of a lawsuit for stolen property, and see what they say. Of course, this is likely to not work out in the way you hope it will, so only do it if you feel like being cheeky and having some fun with a possible potential downside cost down the road. I don't actually recommend doing this, I just think it would be funny to hear their response.






share|improve this answer













If you have no documentation stating that you owe them this money (in your contract/employment agreement/etc), then tell them as such: "I never agreed to this, go shove it" (depending on how you feel about this company, I might be tempted to use those exact words) and do not respond to any further communique. If they continue to "shout into the void", as it were, you may want to contact a lawyer regarding harassment.




If you feel like being extra cheeky though, you may want to suggest, at least, if you have to pay $1500 for the AutoCAD subscription, then it should be your property. Issue them a notice to have your AutoCAD license transferred to you on threat of a lawsuit for stolen property, and see what they say. Of course, this is likely to not work out in the way you hope it will, so only do it if you feel like being cheeky and having some fun with a possible potential downside cost down the road. I don't actually recommend doing this, I just think it would be funny to hear their response.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 2 days ago









Ertai87Ertai87

12k31534




12k31534







  • 19





    I think this advice is entertaining, but so so unprofessional. Be better than them (i.e. not a child). If you're going to stop responding to them after telling them to "shove it", then just don't respond to begin with. What do you aim to gain by starting a confrontation? Same with the AutoCAD license - so you ask them to transfer the license to you and they agree. Now what? You are still out $1500.

    – Catsunami
    2 days ago











  • Agreed cheeky is all but never the professional answer. There is some professional merit though in the concept that if they expect someone to pay for resources they purchased for them, those resources must be transferred or at minimum prorated back for the unusable portion.

    – John Spiegel
    2 days ago






  • 20





    Yeah, the AutoCAD thing in particular is horrible advice. If the boss wants to screw you over, they'll instantly agree. Suddenly, you went from "Not legally required to pay anything" to "Agreeing to buy an instance of AutoCAD for $1500 that you weren't planning on." After all, it doesn't cost the boss anything to take your $1500 and just buy another license.

    – Kevin
    2 days ago











  • @Kevin I agree that that is horrible advice. As a CAD administrator, though, it would be really difficult and painstaking to transfer a license. While you can give anyone a product key, it is tied to a contract - a contract that likely has multiple Autodesk licenses. To really transfer ownership would probably involve direct assistance from Autodesk... good luck with that.

    – Evan Elrod
    2 days ago












  • 19





    I think this advice is entertaining, but so so unprofessional. Be better than them (i.e. not a child). If you're going to stop responding to them after telling them to "shove it", then just don't respond to begin with. What do you aim to gain by starting a confrontation? Same with the AutoCAD license - so you ask them to transfer the license to you and they agree. Now what? You are still out $1500.

    – Catsunami
    2 days ago











  • Agreed cheeky is all but never the professional answer. There is some professional merit though in the concept that if they expect someone to pay for resources they purchased for them, those resources must be transferred or at minimum prorated back for the unusable portion.

    – John Spiegel
    2 days ago






  • 20





    Yeah, the AutoCAD thing in particular is horrible advice. If the boss wants to screw you over, they'll instantly agree. Suddenly, you went from "Not legally required to pay anything" to "Agreeing to buy an instance of AutoCAD for $1500 that you weren't planning on." After all, it doesn't cost the boss anything to take your $1500 and just buy another license.

    – Kevin
    2 days ago











  • @Kevin I agree that that is horrible advice. As a CAD administrator, though, it would be really difficult and painstaking to transfer a license. While you can give anyone a product key, it is tied to a contract - a contract that likely has multiple Autodesk licenses. To really transfer ownership would probably involve direct assistance from Autodesk... good luck with that.

    – Evan Elrod
    2 days ago







19




19





I think this advice is entertaining, but so so unprofessional. Be better than them (i.e. not a child). If you're going to stop responding to them after telling them to "shove it", then just don't respond to begin with. What do you aim to gain by starting a confrontation? Same with the AutoCAD license - so you ask them to transfer the license to you and they agree. Now what? You are still out $1500.

– Catsunami
2 days ago





I think this advice is entertaining, but so so unprofessional. Be better than them (i.e. not a child). If you're going to stop responding to them after telling them to "shove it", then just don't respond to begin with. What do you aim to gain by starting a confrontation? Same with the AutoCAD license - so you ask them to transfer the license to you and they agree. Now what? You are still out $1500.

– Catsunami
2 days ago













Agreed cheeky is all but never the professional answer. There is some professional merit though in the concept that if they expect someone to pay for resources they purchased for them, those resources must be transferred or at minimum prorated back for the unusable portion.

– John Spiegel
2 days ago





Agreed cheeky is all but never the professional answer. There is some professional merit though in the concept that if they expect someone to pay for resources they purchased for them, those resources must be transferred or at minimum prorated back for the unusable portion.

– John Spiegel
2 days ago




20




20





Yeah, the AutoCAD thing in particular is horrible advice. If the boss wants to screw you over, they'll instantly agree. Suddenly, you went from "Not legally required to pay anything" to "Agreeing to buy an instance of AutoCAD for $1500 that you weren't planning on." After all, it doesn't cost the boss anything to take your $1500 and just buy another license.

– Kevin
2 days ago





Yeah, the AutoCAD thing in particular is horrible advice. If the boss wants to screw you over, they'll instantly agree. Suddenly, you went from "Not legally required to pay anything" to "Agreeing to buy an instance of AutoCAD for $1500 that you weren't planning on." After all, it doesn't cost the boss anything to take your $1500 and just buy another license.

– Kevin
2 days ago













@Kevin I agree that that is horrible advice. As a CAD administrator, though, it would be really difficult and painstaking to transfer a license. While you can give anyone a product key, it is tied to a contract - a contract that likely has multiple Autodesk licenses. To really transfer ownership would probably involve direct assistance from Autodesk... good luck with that.

– Evan Elrod
2 days ago





@Kevin I agree that that is horrible advice. As a CAD administrator, though, it would be really difficult and painstaking to transfer a license. While you can give anyone a product key, it is tied to a contract - a contract that likely has multiple Autodesk licenses. To really transfer ownership would probably involve direct assistance from Autodesk... good luck with that.

– Evan Elrod
2 days ago



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