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Is it wise to hold on to stock that has plummeted and then stabilized?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Frequently Answered Questions (by topic)
Can we remove “Strategies for earning more money” from the on-topic list?I carelessly invested in a stock on a spike near the peak price. How can I salvage my investment?How do I simulate a trailing limit orderHow are investment funding valued when invested in a company before it goes public?May I Invest as a non accredited investor?What is it about company performance that causes the perceived value of its stock to rise?Company revenue increased however stock price did notCould ignoring sunk costs be used to make an investment look more attractive when it's really not?Historically, has stock value gone up in relation to corporate tax cuts? To what extent?Why can't we all agree to create a self-fulfilling prophecy with regards to the stock market?To what extent can dividends be seen as an informed and careful conclusion about the company's long term ability to at least maintain it?ESPP--any reason not to go all in?
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I own some stock that lost more than half its value. It has now been more or less stable for months, and I'm tempted to get rid of it because I see poor prospects in the future for this line of business.
However, I'm told by others that this is unwise, that this is the worst time to sell -- I should recover the losses!
Isn't this the gambler's fallacy? What stops the stock from going down by another half in the future, again? And again?
The people giving me this advice have no insight at all into this particular stock nor have a particular keen insight into economics in general. However, they present this as if it is obvious fact that everyone should know, that if you have experienced this, then you should wait until it has regained at least some of its value.
What basis would anyone have for this statement? Is it true that statistically, more often than not, a company will recover?
The way I view this, is if I would rather buy or sell stock in the company now. What happened in the past is simply unfortunate (for me), it by itself doesn't have any bearing on the future for this company.
investing
|
show 1 more comment
I own some stock that lost more than half its value. It has now been more or less stable for months, and I'm tempted to get rid of it because I see poor prospects in the future for this line of business.
However, I'm told by others that this is unwise, that this is the worst time to sell -- I should recover the losses!
Isn't this the gambler's fallacy? What stops the stock from going down by another half in the future, again? And again?
The people giving me this advice have no insight at all into this particular stock nor have a particular keen insight into economics in general. However, they present this as if it is obvious fact that everyone should know, that if you have experienced this, then you should wait until it has regained at least some of its value.
What basis would anyone have for this statement? Is it true that statistically, more often than not, a company will recover?
The way I view this, is if I would rather buy or sell stock in the company now. What happened in the past is simply unfortunate (for me), it by itself doesn't have any bearing on the future for this company.
investing
13
If you didn't own any of this stock, would you buy some now?
– jcm
Apr 8 at 23:18
1
@jcm No, and that was my point.
– AlphaCentauri
Apr 8 at 23:33
16
There's your answer.
– jcm
Apr 8 at 23:44
As you stated, (1) nothing stops the stock from going down by another half in the future and (2) what happened in the past has no bearing on the future for this company. Your choice is to continue Buy & Hope or accept defeat. Regardless of which you choose, the future is unknown. Another choice is that if you believe (hope?) that the stock has stabilized and if it offers options, sell some OTM covered calls and receive some income while waiting. It will likely be a locked in loss but a smaller one. Again, no guarantees.
– Bob Baerker
Apr 9 at 0:23
1
If your stock picking is anything like mine... If you sell it now, it will go up later; and if you hold it, it will go down. :)
– Glen Yates
Apr 10 at 20:59
|
show 1 more comment
I own some stock that lost more than half its value. It has now been more or less stable for months, and I'm tempted to get rid of it because I see poor prospects in the future for this line of business.
However, I'm told by others that this is unwise, that this is the worst time to sell -- I should recover the losses!
Isn't this the gambler's fallacy? What stops the stock from going down by another half in the future, again? And again?
The people giving me this advice have no insight at all into this particular stock nor have a particular keen insight into economics in general. However, they present this as if it is obvious fact that everyone should know, that if you have experienced this, then you should wait until it has regained at least some of its value.
What basis would anyone have for this statement? Is it true that statistically, more often than not, a company will recover?
The way I view this, is if I would rather buy or sell stock in the company now. What happened in the past is simply unfortunate (for me), it by itself doesn't have any bearing on the future for this company.
investing
I own some stock that lost more than half its value. It has now been more or less stable for months, and I'm tempted to get rid of it because I see poor prospects in the future for this line of business.
However, I'm told by others that this is unwise, that this is the worst time to sell -- I should recover the losses!
Isn't this the gambler's fallacy? What stops the stock from going down by another half in the future, again? And again?
The people giving me this advice have no insight at all into this particular stock nor have a particular keen insight into economics in general. However, they present this as if it is obvious fact that everyone should know, that if you have experienced this, then you should wait until it has regained at least some of its value.
What basis would anyone have for this statement? Is it true that statistically, more often than not, a company will recover?
The way I view this, is if I would rather buy or sell stock in the company now. What happened in the past is simply unfortunate (for me), it by itself doesn't have any bearing on the future for this company.
investing
investing
edited Apr 8 at 23:33
AlphaCentauri
asked Apr 8 at 23:14
AlphaCentauriAlphaCentauri
1163
1163
13
If you didn't own any of this stock, would you buy some now?
– jcm
Apr 8 at 23:18
1
@jcm No, and that was my point.
– AlphaCentauri
Apr 8 at 23:33
16
There's your answer.
– jcm
Apr 8 at 23:44
As you stated, (1) nothing stops the stock from going down by another half in the future and (2) what happened in the past has no bearing on the future for this company. Your choice is to continue Buy & Hope or accept defeat. Regardless of which you choose, the future is unknown. Another choice is that if you believe (hope?) that the stock has stabilized and if it offers options, sell some OTM covered calls and receive some income while waiting. It will likely be a locked in loss but a smaller one. Again, no guarantees.
– Bob Baerker
Apr 9 at 0:23
1
If your stock picking is anything like mine... If you sell it now, it will go up later; and if you hold it, it will go down. :)
– Glen Yates
Apr 10 at 20:59
|
show 1 more comment
13
If you didn't own any of this stock, would you buy some now?
– jcm
Apr 8 at 23:18
1
@jcm No, and that was my point.
– AlphaCentauri
Apr 8 at 23:33
16
There's your answer.
– jcm
Apr 8 at 23:44
As you stated, (1) nothing stops the stock from going down by another half in the future and (2) what happened in the past has no bearing on the future for this company. Your choice is to continue Buy & Hope or accept defeat. Regardless of which you choose, the future is unknown. Another choice is that if you believe (hope?) that the stock has stabilized and if it offers options, sell some OTM covered calls and receive some income while waiting. It will likely be a locked in loss but a smaller one. Again, no guarantees.
– Bob Baerker
Apr 9 at 0:23
1
If your stock picking is anything like mine... If you sell it now, it will go up later; and if you hold it, it will go down. :)
– Glen Yates
Apr 10 at 20:59
13
13
If you didn't own any of this stock, would you buy some now?
– jcm
Apr 8 at 23:18
If you didn't own any of this stock, would you buy some now?
– jcm
Apr 8 at 23:18
1
1
@jcm No, and that was my point.
– AlphaCentauri
Apr 8 at 23:33
@jcm No, and that was my point.
– AlphaCentauri
Apr 8 at 23:33
16
16
There's your answer.
– jcm
Apr 8 at 23:44
There's your answer.
– jcm
Apr 8 at 23:44
As you stated, (1) nothing stops the stock from going down by another half in the future and (2) what happened in the past has no bearing on the future for this company. Your choice is to continue Buy & Hope or accept defeat. Regardless of which you choose, the future is unknown. Another choice is that if you believe (hope?) that the stock has stabilized and if it offers options, sell some OTM covered calls and receive some income while waiting. It will likely be a locked in loss but a smaller one. Again, no guarantees.
– Bob Baerker
Apr 9 at 0:23
As you stated, (1) nothing stops the stock from going down by another half in the future and (2) what happened in the past has no bearing on the future for this company. Your choice is to continue Buy & Hope or accept defeat. Regardless of which you choose, the future is unknown. Another choice is that if you believe (hope?) that the stock has stabilized and if it offers options, sell some OTM covered calls and receive some income while waiting. It will likely be a locked in loss but a smaller one. Again, no guarantees.
– Bob Baerker
Apr 9 at 0:23
1
1
If your stock picking is anything like mine... If you sell it now, it will go up later; and if you hold it, it will go down. :)
– Glen Yates
Apr 10 at 20:59
If your stock picking is anything like mine... If you sell it now, it will go up later; and if you hold it, it will go down. :)
– Glen Yates
Apr 10 at 20:59
|
show 1 more comment
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
This might be closer to the sunk cost fallacy with a bit of loss aversion thrown in. I know it is hard emotionally to "lock in your losses", but that money is gone and it is a new day. You have an asset that is worth what the stock trades at today and that's what you have to work with.
It is very possible that stock might regain its previous losses, but the fact that you paid more for it doesn't make it any more/less likely to than any other stock.
The key is that you have to pretend that you have the cash value of the stock today and never invested it. If you would buy that stock today, keep it. If you wouldn't trade the same amount of cash for the stock, try something else.
6
The government doesn't treat it the same way for tax purposes as just buying the stock today, right? Seems like one reason why the two wouldn't be equivalent.
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 7:18
"the fact that you paid more for it doesn't make it any more/less likely to than any other stock." Is this true? I would think that between 2 stocks trading at $10, if one used to trade at $20, and the other has always traded at $10, that the former would have a higher chance of reaching $20 again.
– GendoIkari
Apr 9 at 14:15
1
@Mehrdad Taxation is a consideration, but it might be distracting to the underlying investment question. And the fact that it went down in value should make you a bit more likely to sell the stock, not keep it.
– wide.writing.immediately
Apr 9 at 14:55
@wide.writing.immediately: Why? If you hold it and it goes up it can be long-term capital gains. Whereas if you were to sell until you thought it might go up and then buy it again, it can be short-term capital gains. Of course it depends on how long you'll have had each one but in such a scenario it can clearly be advantageous not to sell, and hence it doesn't necessarily make sense to compare it to "would you buy it right now if you didn't have any".
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 22:11
1
@GendoIkari Or, just as likely, the stock that was at $20 has just paused at $10 on its way down to $0. From the price alone you can't tell.
– TripeHound
Apr 10 at 21:29
|
show 1 more comment
(1) Assets held in stocks for many years (regardless of their "paper" value at any given moment, like now) are a way to protect them from taxation for those years. Unlike bank accounts, mutual funds, real estate, income-generating assets, etc, stocks incur NO taxes AT ALL during those held years-- it's a 100% taxation shelter for that time. So if there is any chance at all that your stock will recover, hold onto it.
(2) Another reason to hold and not get rid of a stock is that if/when it does recover and you sell profitably, if you sell more than a year after acquisition, you pay long-term capital gains tax rate, which is less than short-term capital gains tax rate, and way less than wage/salary/interest/dividend income taxes.
(2) Losses on stock are NOT valueless- in the USA, when you sell at a loss, you can write-off those losses against income that year* (gains made in other stock transactions, or in your salary) when you file your taxes, which will lower your taxable income and possibly even move you into a lower tax bracket (further reducing your taxes). *there are limits to how much you can do this ($3000/yr), but you can carry-forward excesses beyond this limit into many future years, saving you taxes in those future years.
The more money you've lost, the greater the benefit.
Carefully timing your sales-at-a-loss can thus be beneficial to your taxes on a given year. Rich people do this all the time-- selling losses in the same year as they make a big gain in some other transaction. Lots of tech stock option recipients used this trick to extract at least some value out of worthless ESPP/ESOP stock.
New contributor
Jaime, you may want to add a few corrections here. Assets held over 1 year are considered long-term, not 18 months. And, at the moment, the most losses that can be deducted in a given year is $3000, with some provisions for carrying over greater losses to future years.
– R. Hamilton
Apr 9 at 13:58
thx. Corrected.
– Jaime Guerrero
Apr 10 at 17:32
@Jaime GuerreroI: used to think that way... but one should almost never think of taxes when investing. Except in December..... that's when you might want to sell some winners just to balance out the losers (if there are any)
– sofa general
Apr 10 at 17:33
add a comment |
I see poor prospects in the future for this line of business
You answered your own question.
Unless a stock is already at exactly 0 it can always go down further. Holding onto a stock believing that in the long term it will go down is just about the opposite of any decent investment advice ever.
Now obviously you could be acting on good information that contradicts what you believe, but it doesn't seem like you have such information. The information you seem to have is "don't sell because you're currently down" which is terrible advice.
The advice does hold true for stocks that went down that you still think are worth holding onto because of their long term prospects. In other words: don't just sell stocks because they went down. Sell stocks because you don't think they're worth their current price.
add a comment |
Say you bought 100 shares of X at $10. for 1000...
it plummeted to $6 a share, because (let's say it missed an earning).
The question you should be asking isn't whether you should hold.
Remember, you still have $600 of cash equivalent (in X) And remember what Buffett said about such situations.. "You don't have to make it back the same way you lost it"
The REAL question you should be asking is given you have $600 ... would you buy X again at 6 dollars a share. Or is there another stock Y that you would rather buy. (the second component to the question really isn't all that important or even relevant)
if the answer is yes.. you would buy X again, you hold.
if the answer is no.. you should sell.
If the answer is hell yes, then you should buy even more.
Before I forget... someone (who shall remain nameless) is going to say I didn't answer the question...
You already said you see poor prospect for the company.... I think the answer to the "would you buy this stock again" question is a "no"?
Sell.
New contributor
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
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This might be closer to the sunk cost fallacy with a bit of loss aversion thrown in. I know it is hard emotionally to "lock in your losses", but that money is gone and it is a new day. You have an asset that is worth what the stock trades at today and that's what you have to work with.
It is very possible that stock might regain its previous losses, but the fact that you paid more for it doesn't make it any more/less likely to than any other stock.
The key is that you have to pretend that you have the cash value of the stock today and never invested it. If you would buy that stock today, keep it. If you wouldn't trade the same amount of cash for the stock, try something else.
6
The government doesn't treat it the same way for tax purposes as just buying the stock today, right? Seems like one reason why the two wouldn't be equivalent.
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 7:18
"the fact that you paid more for it doesn't make it any more/less likely to than any other stock." Is this true? I would think that between 2 stocks trading at $10, if one used to trade at $20, and the other has always traded at $10, that the former would have a higher chance of reaching $20 again.
– GendoIkari
Apr 9 at 14:15
1
@Mehrdad Taxation is a consideration, but it might be distracting to the underlying investment question. And the fact that it went down in value should make you a bit more likely to sell the stock, not keep it.
– wide.writing.immediately
Apr 9 at 14:55
@wide.writing.immediately: Why? If you hold it and it goes up it can be long-term capital gains. Whereas if you were to sell until you thought it might go up and then buy it again, it can be short-term capital gains. Of course it depends on how long you'll have had each one but in such a scenario it can clearly be advantageous not to sell, and hence it doesn't necessarily make sense to compare it to "would you buy it right now if you didn't have any".
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 22:11
1
@GendoIkari Or, just as likely, the stock that was at $20 has just paused at $10 on its way down to $0. From the price alone you can't tell.
– TripeHound
Apr 10 at 21:29
|
show 1 more comment
This might be closer to the sunk cost fallacy with a bit of loss aversion thrown in. I know it is hard emotionally to "lock in your losses", but that money is gone and it is a new day. You have an asset that is worth what the stock trades at today and that's what you have to work with.
It is very possible that stock might regain its previous losses, but the fact that you paid more for it doesn't make it any more/less likely to than any other stock.
The key is that you have to pretend that you have the cash value of the stock today and never invested it. If you would buy that stock today, keep it. If you wouldn't trade the same amount of cash for the stock, try something else.
6
The government doesn't treat it the same way for tax purposes as just buying the stock today, right? Seems like one reason why the two wouldn't be equivalent.
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 7:18
"the fact that you paid more for it doesn't make it any more/less likely to than any other stock." Is this true? I would think that between 2 stocks trading at $10, if one used to trade at $20, and the other has always traded at $10, that the former would have a higher chance of reaching $20 again.
– GendoIkari
Apr 9 at 14:15
1
@Mehrdad Taxation is a consideration, but it might be distracting to the underlying investment question. And the fact that it went down in value should make you a bit more likely to sell the stock, not keep it.
– wide.writing.immediately
Apr 9 at 14:55
@wide.writing.immediately: Why? If you hold it and it goes up it can be long-term capital gains. Whereas if you were to sell until you thought it might go up and then buy it again, it can be short-term capital gains. Of course it depends on how long you'll have had each one but in such a scenario it can clearly be advantageous not to sell, and hence it doesn't necessarily make sense to compare it to "would you buy it right now if you didn't have any".
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 22:11
1
@GendoIkari Or, just as likely, the stock that was at $20 has just paused at $10 on its way down to $0. From the price alone you can't tell.
– TripeHound
Apr 10 at 21:29
|
show 1 more comment
This might be closer to the sunk cost fallacy with a bit of loss aversion thrown in. I know it is hard emotionally to "lock in your losses", but that money is gone and it is a new day. You have an asset that is worth what the stock trades at today and that's what you have to work with.
It is very possible that stock might regain its previous losses, but the fact that you paid more for it doesn't make it any more/less likely to than any other stock.
The key is that you have to pretend that you have the cash value of the stock today and never invested it. If you would buy that stock today, keep it. If you wouldn't trade the same amount of cash for the stock, try something else.
This might be closer to the sunk cost fallacy with a bit of loss aversion thrown in. I know it is hard emotionally to "lock in your losses", but that money is gone and it is a new day. You have an asset that is worth what the stock trades at today and that's what you have to work with.
It is very possible that stock might regain its previous losses, but the fact that you paid more for it doesn't make it any more/less likely to than any other stock.
The key is that you have to pretend that you have the cash value of the stock today and never invested it. If you would buy that stock today, keep it. If you wouldn't trade the same amount of cash for the stock, try something else.
answered Apr 9 at 2:17
JohnFx♦JohnFx
35.8k985189
35.8k985189
6
The government doesn't treat it the same way for tax purposes as just buying the stock today, right? Seems like one reason why the two wouldn't be equivalent.
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 7:18
"the fact that you paid more for it doesn't make it any more/less likely to than any other stock." Is this true? I would think that between 2 stocks trading at $10, if one used to trade at $20, and the other has always traded at $10, that the former would have a higher chance of reaching $20 again.
– GendoIkari
Apr 9 at 14:15
1
@Mehrdad Taxation is a consideration, but it might be distracting to the underlying investment question. And the fact that it went down in value should make you a bit more likely to sell the stock, not keep it.
– wide.writing.immediately
Apr 9 at 14:55
@wide.writing.immediately: Why? If you hold it and it goes up it can be long-term capital gains. Whereas if you were to sell until you thought it might go up and then buy it again, it can be short-term capital gains. Of course it depends on how long you'll have had each one but in such a scenario it can clearly be advantageous not to sell, and hence it doesn't necessarily make sense to compare it to "would you buy it right now if you didn't have any".
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 22:11
1
@GendoIkari Or, just as likely, the stock that was at $20 has just paused at $10 on its way down to $0. From the price alone you can't tell.
– TripeHound
Apr 10 at 21:29
|
show 1 more comment
6
The government doesn't treat it the same way for tax purposes as just buying the stock today, right? Seems like one reason why the two wouldn't be equivalent.
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 7:18
"the fact that you paid more for it doesn't make it any more/less likely to than any other stock." Is this true? I would think that between 2 stocks trading at $10, if one used to trade at $20, and the other has always traded at $10, that the former would have a higher chance of reaching $20 again.
– GendoIkari
Apr 9 at 14:15
1
@Mehrdad Taxation is a consideration, but it might be distracting to the underlying investment question. And the fact that it went down in value should make you a bit more likely to sell the stock, not keep it.
– wide.writing.immediately
Apr 9 at 14:55
@wide.writing.immediately: Why? If you hold it and it goes up it can be long-term capital gains. Whereas if you were to sell until you thought it might go up and then buy it again, it can be short-term capital gains. Of course it depends on how long you'll have had each one but in such a scenario it can clearly be advantageous not to sell, and hence it doesn't necessarily make sense to compare it to "would you buy it right now if you didn't have any".
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 22:11
1
@GendoIkari Or, just as likely, the stock that was at $20 has just paused at $10 on its way down to $0. From the price alone you can't tell.
– TripeHound
Apr 10 at 21:29
6
6
The government doesn't treat it the same way for tax purposes as just buying the stock today, right? Seems like one reason why the two wouldn't be equivalent.
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 7:18
The government doesn't treat it the same way for tax purposes as just buying the stock today, right? Seems like one reason why the two wouldn't be equivalent.
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 7:18
"the fact that you paid more for it doesn't make it any more/less likely to than any other stock." Is this true? I would think that between 2 stocks trading at $10, if one used to trade at $20, and the other has always traded at $10, that the former would have a higher chance of reaching $20 again.
– GendoIkari
Apr 9 at 14:15
"the fact that you paid more for it doesn't make it any more/less likely to than any other stock." Is this true? I would think that between 2 stocks trading at $10, if one used to trade at $20, and the other has always traded at $10, that the former would have a higher chance of reaching $20 again.
– GendoIkari
Apr 9 at 14:15
1
1
@Mehrdad Taxation is a consideration, but it might be distracting to the underlying investment question. And the fact that it went down in value should make you a bit more likely to sell the stock, not keep it.
– wide.writing.immediately
Apr 9 at 14:55
@Mehrdad Taxation is a consideration, but it might be distracting to the underlying investment question. And the fact that it went down in value should make you a bit more likely to sell the stock, not keep it.
– wide.writing.immediately
Apr 9 at 14:55
@wide.writing.immediately: Why? If you hold it and it goes up it can be long-term capital gains. Whereas if you were to sell until you thought it might go up and then buy it again, it can be short-term capital gains. Of course it depends on how long you'll have had each one but in such a scenario it can clearly be advantageous not to sell, and hence it doesn't necessarily make sense to compare it to "would you buy it right now if you didn't have any".
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 22:11
@wide.writing.immediately: Why? If you hold it and it goes up it can be long-term capital gains. Whereas if you were to sell until you thought it might go up and then buy it again, it can be short-term capital gains. Of course it depends on how long you'll have had each one but in such a scenario it can clearly be advantageous not to sell, and hence it doesn't necessarily make sense to compare it to "would you buy it right now if you didn't have any".
– Mehrdad
Apr 9 at 22:11
1
1
@GendoIkari Or, just as likely, the stock that was at $20 has just paused at $10 on its way down to $0. From the price alone you can't tell.
– TripeHound
Apr 10 at 21:29
@GendoIkari Or, just as likely, the stock that was at $20 has just paused at $10 on its way down to $0. From the price alone you can't tell.
– TripeHound
Apr 10 at 21:29
|
show 1 more comment
(1) Assets held in stocks for many years (regardless of their "paper" value at any given moment, like now) are a way to protect them from taxation for those years. Unlike bank accounts, mutual funds, real estate, income-generating assets, etc, stocks incur NO taxes AT ALL during those held years-- it's a 100% taxation shelter for that time. So if there is any chance at all that your stock will recover, hold onto it.
(2) Another reason to hold and not get rid of a stock is that if/when it does recover and you sell profitably, if you sell more than a year after acquisition, you pay long-term capital gains tax rate, which is less than short-term capital gains tax rate, and way less than wage/salary/interest/dividend income taxes.
(2) Losses on stock are NOT valueless- in the USA, when you sell at a loss, you can write-off those losses against income that year* (gains made in other stock transactions, or in your salary) when you file your taxes, which will lower your taxable income and possibly even move you into a lower tax bracket (further reducing your taxes). *there are limits to how much you can do this ($3000/yr), but you can carry-forward excesses beyond this limit into many future years, saving you taxes in those future years.
The more money you've lost, the greater the benefit.
Carefully timing your sales-at-a-loss can thus be beneficial to your taxes on a given year. Rich people do this all the time-- selling losses in the same year as they make a big gain in some other transaction. Lots of tech stock option recipients used this trick to extract at least some value out of worthless ESPP/ESOP stock.
New contributor
Jaime, you may want to add a few corrections here. Assets held over 1 year are considered long-term, not 18 months. And, at the moment, the most losses that can be deducted in a given year is $3000, with some provisions for carrying over greater losses to future years.
– R. Hamilton
Apr 9 at 13:58
thx. Corrected.
– Jaime Guerrero
Apr 10 at 17:32
@Jaime GuerreroI: used to think that way... but one should almost never think of taxes when investing. Except in December..... that's when you might want to sell some winners just to balance out the losers (if there are any)
– sofa general
Apr 10 at 17:33
add a comment |
(1) Assets held in stocks for many years (regardless of their "paper" value at any given moment, like now) are a way to protect them from taxation for those years. Unlike bank accounts, mutual funds, real estate, income-generating assets, etc, stocks incur NO taxes AT ALL during those held years-- it's a 100% taxation shelter for that time. So if there is any chance at all that your stock will recover, hold onto it.
(2) Another reason to hold and not get rid of a stock is that if/when it does recover and you sell profitably, if you sell more than a year after acquisition, you pay long-term capital gains tax rate, which is less than short-term capital gains tax rate, and way less than wage/salary/interest/dividend income taxes.
(2) Losses on stock are NOT valueless- in the USA, when you sell at a loss, you can write-off those losses against income that year* (gains made in other stock transactions, or in your salary) when you file your taxes, which will lower your taxable income and possibly even move you into a lower tax bracket (further reducing your taxes). *there are limits to how much you can do this ($3000/yr), but you can carry-forward excesses beyond this limit into many future years, saving you taxes in those future years.
The more money you've lost, the greater the benefit.
Carefully timing your sales-at-a-loss can thus be beneficial to your taxes on a given year. Rich people do this all the time-- selling losses in the same year as they make a big gain in some other transaction. Lots of tech stock option recipients used this trick to extract at least some value out of worthless ESPP/ESOP stock.
New contributor
Jaime, you may want to add a few corrections here. Assets held over 1 year are considered long-term, not 18 months. And, at the moment, the most losses that can be deducted in a given year is $3000, with some provisions for carrying over greater losses to future years.
– R. Hamilton
Apr 9 at 13:58
thx. Corrected.
– Jaime Guerrero
Apr 10 at 17:32
@Jaime GuerreroI: used to think that way... but one should almost never think of taxes when investing. Except in December..... that's when you might want to sell some winners just to balance out the losers (if there are any)
– sofa general
Apr 10 at 17:33
add a comment |
(1) Assets held in stocks for many years (regardless of their "paper" value at any given moment, like now) are a way to protect them from taxation for those years. Unlike bank accounts, mutual funds, real estate, income-generating assets, etc, stocks incur NO taxes AT ALL during those held years-- it's a 100% taxation shelter for that time. So if there is any chance at all that your stock will recover, hold onto it.
(2) Another reason to hold and not get rid of a stock is that if/when it does recover and you sell profitably, if you sell more than a year after acquisition, you pay long-term capital gains tax rate, which is less than short-term capital gains tax rate, and way less than wage/salary/interest/dividend income taxes.
(2) Losses on stock are NOT valueless- in the USA, when you sell at a loss, you can write-off those losses against income that year* (gains made in other stock transactions, or in your salary) when you file your taxes, which will lower your taxable income and possibly even move you into a lower tax bracket (further reducing your taxes). *there are limits to how much you can do this ($3000/yr), but you can carry-forward excesses beyond this limit into many future years, saving you taxes in those future years.
The more money you've lost, the greater the benefit.
Carefully timing your sales-at-a-loss can thus be beneficial to your taxes on a given year. Rich people do this all the time-- selling losses in the same year as they make a big gain in some other transaction. Lots of tech stock option recipients used this trick to extract at least some value out of worthless ESPP/ESOP stock.
New contributor
(1) Assets held in stocks for many years (regardless of their "paper" value at any given moment, like now) are a way to protect them from taxation for those years. Unlike bank accounts, mutual funds, real estate, income-generating assets, etc, stocks incur NO taxes AT ALL during those held years-- it's a 100% taxation shelter for that time. So if there is any chance at all that your stock will recover, hold onto it.
(2) Another reason to hold and not get rid of a stock is that if/when it does recover and you sell profitably, if you sell more than a year after acquisition, you pay long-term capital gains tax rate, which is less than short-term capital gains tax rate, and way less than wage/salary/interest/dividend income taxes.
(2) Losses on stock are NOT valueless- in the USA, when you sell at a loss, you can write-off those losses against income that year* (gains made in other stock transactions, or in your salary) when you file your taxes, which will lower your taxable income and possibly even move you into a lower tax bracket (further reducing your taxes). *there are limits to how much you can do this ($3000/yr), but you can carry-forward excesses beyond this limit into many future years, saving you taxes in those future years.
The more money you've lost, the greater the benefit.
Carefully timing your sales-at-a-loss can thus be beneficial to your taxes on a given year. Rich people do this all the time-- selling losses in the same year as they make a big gain in some other transaction. Lots of tech stock option recipients used this trick to extract at least some value out of worthless ESPP/ESOP stock.
New contributor
edited Apr 10 at 17:29
New contributor
answered Apr 9 at 4:44
Jaime GuerreroJaime Guerrero
212
212
New contributor
New contributor
Jaime, you may want to add a few corrections here. Assets held over 1 year are considered long-term, not 18 months. And, at the moment, the most losses that can be deducted in a given year is $3000, with some provisions for carrying over greater losses to future years.
– R. Hamilton
Apr 9 at 13:58
thx. Corrected.
– Jaime Guerrero
Apr 10 at 17:32
@Jaime GuerreroI: used to think that way... but one should almost never think of taxes when investing. Except in December..... that's when you might want to sell some winners just to balance out the losers (if there are any)
– sofa general
Apr 10 at 17:33
add a comment |
Jaime, you may want to add a few corrections here. Assets held over 1 year are considered long-term, not 18 months. And, at the moment, the most losses that can be deducted in a given year is $3000, with some provisions for carrying over greater losses to future years.
– R. Hamilton
Apr 9 at 13:58
thx. Corrected.
– Jaime Guerrero
Apr 10 at 17:32
@Jaime GuerreroI: used to think that way... but one should almost never think of taxes when investing. Except in December..... that's when you might want to sell some winners just to balance out the losers (if there are any)
– sofa general
Apr 10 at 17:33
Jaime, you may want to add a few corrections here. Assets held over 1 year are considered long-term, not 18 months. And, at the moment, the most losses that can be deducted in a given year is $3000, with some provisions for carrying over greater losses to future years.
– R. Hamilton
Apr 9 at 13:58
Jaime, you may want to add a few corrections here. Assets held over 1 year are considered long-term, not 18 months. And, at the moment, the most losses that can be deducted in a given year is $3000, with some provisions for carrying over greater losses to future years.
– R. Hamilton
Apr 9 at 13:58
thx. Corrected.
– Jaime Guerrero
Apr 10 at 17:32
thx. Corrected.
– Jaime Guerrero
Apr 10 at 17:32
@Jaime GuerreroI: used to think that way... but one should almost never think of taxes when investing. Except in December..... that's when you might want to sell some winners just to balance out the losers (if there are any)
– sofa general
Apr 10 at 17:33
@Jaime GuerreroI: used to think that way... but one should almost never think of taxes when investing. Except in December..... that's when you might want to sell some winners just to balance out the losers (if there are any)
– sofa general
Apr 10 at 17:33
add a comment |
I see poor prospects in the future for this line of business
You answered your own question.
Unless a stock is already at exactly 0 it can always go down further. Holding onto a stock believing that in the long term it will go down is just about the opposite of any decent investment advice ever.
Now obviously you could be acting on good information that contradicts what you believe, but it doesn't seem like you have such information. The information you seem to have is "don't sell because you're currently down" which is terrible advice.
The advice does hold true for stocks that went down that you still think are worth holding onto because of their long term prospects. In other words: don't just sell stocks because they went down. Sell stocks because you don't think they're worth their current price.
add a comment |
I see poor prospects in the future for this line of business
You answered your own question.
Unless a stock is already at exactly 0 it can always go down further. Holding onto a stock believing that in the long term it will go down is just about the opposite of any decent investment advice ever.
Now obviously you could be acting on good information that contradicts what you believe, but it doesn't seem like you have such information. The information you seem to have is "don't sell because you're currently down" which is terrible advice.
The advice does hold true for stocks that went down that you still think are worth holding onto because of their long term prospects. In other words: don't just sell stocks because they went down. Sell stocks because you don't think they're worth their current price.
add a comment |
I see poor prospects in the future for this line of business
You answered your own question.
Unless a stock is already at exactly 0 it can always go down further. Holding onto a stock believing that in the long term it will go down is just about the opposite of any decent investment advice ever.
Now obviously you could be acting on good information that contradicts what you believe, but it doesn't seem like you have such information. The information you seem to have is "don't sell because you're currently down" which is terrible advice.
The advice does hold true for stocks that went down that you still think are worth holding onto because of their long term prospects. In other words: don't just sell stocks because they went down. Sell stocks because you don't think they're worth their current price.
I see poor prospects in the future for this line of business
You answered your own question.
Unless a stock is already at exactly 0 it can always go down further. Holding onto a stock believing that in the long term it will go down is just about the opposite of any decent investment advice ever.
Now obviously you could be acting on good information that contradicts what you believe, but it doesn't seem like you have such information. The information you seem to have is "don't sell because you're currently down" which is terrible advice.
The advice does hold true for stocks that went down that you still think are worth holding onto because of their long term prospects. In other words: don't just sell stocks because they went down. Sell stocks because you don't think they're worth their current price.
answered Apr 9 at 13:39
xyiousxyious
1,259314
1,259314
add a comment |
add a comment |
Say you bought 100 shares of X at $10. for 1000...
it plummeted to $6 a share, because (let's say it missed an earning).
The question you should be asking isn't whether you should hold.
Remember, you still have $600 of cash equivalent (in X) And remember what Buffett said about such situations.. "You don't have to make it back the same way you lost it"
The REAL question you should be asking is given you have $600 ... would you buy X again at 6 dollars a share. Or is there another stock Y that you would rather buy. (the second component to the question really isn't all that important or even relevant)
if the answer is yes.. you would buy X again, you hold.
if the answer is no.. you should sell.
If the answer is hell yes, then you should buy even more.
Before I forget... someone (who shall remain nameless) is going to say I didn't answer the question...
You already said you see poor prospect for the company.... I think the answer to the "would you buy this stock again" question is a "no"?
Sell.
New contributor
add a comment |
Say you bought 100 shares of X at $10. for 1000...
it plummeted to $6 a share, because (let's say it missed an earning).
The question you should be asking isn't whether you should hold.
Remember, you still have $600 of cash equivalent (in X) And remember what Buffett said about such situations.. "You don't have to make it back the same way you lost it"
The REAL question you should be asking is given you have $600 ... would you buy X again at 6 dollars a share. Or is there another stock Y that you would rather buy. (the second component to the question really isn't all that important or even relevant)
if the answer is yes.. you would buy X again, you hold.
if the answer is no.. you should sell.
If the answer is hell yes, then you should buy even more.
Before I forget... someone (who shall remain nameless) is going to say I didn't answer the question...
You already said you see poor prospect for the company.... I think the answer to the "would you buy this stock again" question is a "no"?
Sell.
New contributor
add a comment |
Say you bought 100 shares of X at $10. for 1000...
it plummeted to $6 a share, because (let's say it missed an earning).
The question you should be asking isn't whether you should hold.
Remember, you still have $600 of cash equivalent (in X) And remember what Buffett said about such situations.. "You don't have to make it back the same way you lost it"
The REAL question you should be asking is given you have $600 ... would you buy X again at 6 dollars a share. Or is there another stock Y that you would rather buy. (the second component to the question really isn't all that important or even relevant)
if the answer is yes.. you would buy X again, you hold.
if the answer is no.. you should sell.
If the answer is hell yes, then you should buy even more.
Before I forget... someone (who shall remain nameless) is going to say I didn't answer the question...
You already said you see poor prospect for the company.... I think the answer to the "would you buy this stock again" question is a "no"?
Sell.
New contributor
Say you bought 100 shares of X at $10. for 1000...
it plummeted to $6 a share, because (let's say it missed an earning).
The question you should be asking isn't whether you should hold.
Remember, you still have $600 of cash equivalent (in X) And remember what Buffett said about such situations.. "You don't have to make it back the same way you lost it"
The REAL question you should be asking is given you have $600 ... would you buy X again at 6 dollars a share. Or is there another stock Y that you would rather buy. (the second component to the question really isn't all that important or even relevant)
if the answer is yes.. you would buy X again, you hold.
if the answer is no.. you should sell.
If the answer is hell yes, then you should buy even more.
Before I forget... someone (who shall remain nameless) is going to say I didn't answer the question...
You already said you see poor prospect for the company.... I think the answer to the "would you buy this stock again" question is a "no"?
Sell.
New contributor
edited Apr 9 at 14:30
New contributor
answered Apr 9 at 14:22
sofa generalsofa general
1525
1525
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
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13
If you didn't own any of this stock, would you buy some now?
– jcm
Apr 8 at 23:18
1
@jcm No, and that was my point.
– AlphaCentauri
Apr 8 at 23:33
16
There's your answer.
– jcm
Apr 8 at 23:44
As you stated, (1) nothing stops the stock from going down by another half in the future and (2) what happened in the past has no bearing on the future for this company. Your choice is to continue Buy & Hope or accept defeat. Regardless of which you choose, the future is unknown. Another choice is that if you believe (hope?) that the stock has stabilized and if it offers options, sell some OTM covered calls and receive some income while waiting. It will likely be a locked in loss but a smaller one. Again, no guarantees.
– Bob Baerker
Apr 9 at 0:23
1
If your stock picking is anything like mine... If you sell it now, it will go up later; and if you hold it, it will go down. :)
– Glen Yates
Apr 10 at 20:59