Do โ„•, mathbbN, BbbN, symbbN effectively differ, and is there a “canonical” specification of the naturals? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Using `mathbb` fonts from other packagesmathbb0 and mathbb1 with mathdesign/Utopia?mathbb0 and mathbb1 without affecting mathbbR and mathbbNHow to produce a character like ๐•œ (the nonexisting mathbbk)?mathbb generates strange characters for numbers and greek lettersXeLaTeX, Latin Modern, mathbb and mathcalWhy does mathbbN_0 render the 0 as nvdash?Is there a “new” canonical test for fonts and languages?Is there a blackboard version of Omega (the capital letter)Typesetting a computer-science book with XeLaTeX+biber

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Do ℕ, mathbbN, BbbN, symbbN effectively differ, and is there a “canonical” specification of the naturals?



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Using `mathbb` fonts from other packagesmathbb0 and mathbb1 with mathdesign/Utopia?mathbb0 and mathbb1 without affecting mathbbR and mathbbNHow to produce a character like 𝕜 (the nonexisting mathbbk)?mathbb generates strange characters for numbers and greek lettersXeLaTeX, Latin Modern, mathbb and mathcalWhy does mathbbN_0 render the 0 as nvdash?Is there a “new” canonical test for fonts and languages?Is there a blackboard version of Omega (the capital letter)Typesetting a computer-science book with XeLaTeX+biber










9















Continuing https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/a/22167/, as far as I understand, all the four of , mathbbN, BbbN, symbbN work now, and BbbN is advised against. Is there any reasonably default context (e.g., a self-constructed context that would redefine these macros and symbols wouldn't count) in which some of , mathbbN, BbbN, symbbN produce different results than some others when using amssymb+unicode-math+xelatex? Compiling the example



documentclassbook
usepackagefontspec
usepackageamssymb
usepackageunicode-math
usepackagemicrotype
setmainfontTeX Gyre Termes
setsansfontTeX Gyre Heros[Scale=0.88]
setmonofontTeX Gyre Cursor
setmathfontTeX Gyre Termes Math
setmathfontAsana Math[
range=setminus,
]
setmathfontXITSMath-Regular[
Extension=.otf,
range="2A3E,
BoldFont=XITSMath-Bold,
]
begindocument
(ℕ mathbbN BbbN symbbN)
enddocument


with xelatex, e.g., I get visibly indistinguishable letters




ℕℕℕℕ




I cannot distinguish them either when I put them as subscripts or superscripts.



Moreover, is there a consensus in the xe[La]TeX world to name any of these ways as the standard way to denote the set of natural numbers?



(Of course, I leave aside the question whether the zero should belong to this set or not; it could flame up a war here and is up to the author anyway.)










share|improve this question


























    9















    Continuing https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/a/22167/, as far as I understand, all the four of , mathbbN, BbbN, symbbN work now, and BbbN is advised against. Is there any reasonably default context (e.g., a self-constructed context that would redefine these macros and symbols wouldn't count) in which some of , mathbbN, BbbN, symbbN produce different results than some others when using amssymb+unicode-math+xelatex? Compiling the example



    documentclassbook
    usepackagefontspec
    usepackageamssymb
    usepackageunicode-math
    usepackagemicrotype
    setmainfontTeX Gyre Termes
    setsansfontTeX Gyre Heros[Scale=0.88]
    setmonofontTeX Gyre Cursor
    setmathfontTeX Gyre Termes Math
    setmathfontAsana Math[
    range=setminus,
    ]
    setmathfontXITSMath-Regular[
    Extension=.otf,
    range="2A3E,
    BoldFont=XITSMath-Bold,
    ]
    begindocument
    (ℕ mathbbN BbbN symbbN)
    enddocument


    with xelatex, e.g., I get visibly indistinguishable letters




    ℕℕℕℕ




    I cannot distinguish them either when I put them as subscripts or superscripts.



    Moreover, is there a consensus in the xe[La]TeX world to name any of these ways as the standard way to denote the set of natural numbers?



    (Of course, I leave aside the question whether the zero should belong to this set or not; it could flame up a war here and is up to the author anyway.)










    share|improve this question
























      9












      9








      9








      Continuing https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/a/22167/, as far as I understand, all the four of , mathbbN, BbbN, symbbN work now, and BbbN is advised against. Is there any reasonably default context (e.g., a self-constructed context that would redefine these macros and symbols wouldn't count) in which some of , mathbbN, BbbN, symbbN produce different results than some others when using amssymb+unicode-math+xelatex? Compiling the example



      documentclassbook
      usepackagefontspec
      usepackageamssymb
      usepackageunicode-math
      usepackagemicrotype
      setmainfontTeX Gyre Termes
      setsansfontTeX Gyre Heros[Scale=0.88]
      setmonofontTeX Gyre Cursor
      setmathfontTeX Gyre Termes Math
      setmathfontAsana Math[
      range=setminus,
      ]
      setmathfontXITSMath-Regular[
      Extension=.otf,
      range="2A3E,
      BoldFont=XITSMath-Bold,
      ]
      begindocument
      (ℕ mathbbN BbbN symbbN)
      enddocument


      with xelatex, e.g., I get visibly indistinguishable letters




      ℕℕℕℕ




      I cannot distinguish them either when I put them as subscripts or superscripts.



      Moreover, is there a consensus in the xe[La]TeX world to name any of these ways as the standard way to denote the set of natural numbers?



      (Of course, I leave aside the question whether the zero should belong to this set or not; it could flame up a war here and is up to the author anyway.)










      share|improve this question














      Continuing https://math.meta.stackexchange.com/a/22167/, as far as I understand, all the four of , mathbbN, BbbN, symbbN work now, and BbbN is advised against. Is there any reasonably default context (e.g., a self-constructed context that would redefine these macros and symbols wouldn't count) in which some of , mathbbN, BbbN, symbbN produce different results than some others when using amssymb+unicode-math+xelatex? Compiling the example



      documentclassbook
      usepackagefontspec
      usepackageamssymb
      usepackageunicode-math
      usepackagemicrotype
      setmainfontTeX Gyre Termes
      setsansfontTeX Gyre Heros[Scale=0.88]
      setmonofontTeX Gyre Cursor
      setmathfontTeX Gyre Termes Math
      setmathfontAsana Math[
      range=setminus,
      ]
      setmathfontXITSMath-Regular[
      Extension=.otf,
      range="2A3E,
      BoldFont=XITSMath-Bold,
      ]
      begindocument
      (ℕ mathbbN BbbN symbbN)
      enddocument


      with xelatex, e.g., I get visibly indistinguishable letters




      ℕℕℕℕ




      I cannot distinguish them either when I put them as subscripts or superscripts.



      Moreover, is there a consensus in the xe[La]TeX world to name any of these ways as the standard way to denote the set of natural numbers?



      (Of course, I leave aside the question whether the zero should belong to this set or not; it could flame up a war here and is up to the author anyway.)







      xetex symbols unicode-math amssymb blackboard






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked Apr 11 at 23:54









      user49915user49915

      768123




      768123




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          13














          The difference is mainly historical. BbbN was created for the original amsfonts, pre-LaTeX; it should be considered obsolete now.
          (Oops! @egreg points out in a comment that BbbN has been defined for unicode-math, so I was thinking of BbbN. That surely should be considered obsolete.)
          The original LaTeX equivalent is mathbbN, and should still be reliable.



          symbbN was defined for fonts developed after the blackboard bold alphabet was added to Unicode.



          The symbol itself (which I can't represent because it's not available on the aged laptop I'm using) depends on having a utf-8 capable input device, and is not available for pdflatex, which is still limited to 8-bit input.



          All forms are equivalent, and the one you use depends on which flavor of LaTeX you're using. There may also be some restrictions associated with the publisher, if you're submitting your document for publication.



          This may not give an unambiguous answer to your question, but it should give you some idea of how the development of the blackboard bold fonts and their support affects the decision of which should be used in what circumstances.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 2





            BbbN is a specific command in unicode-math. The command Bbb (with an argument) is obsolete.

            – egreg
            Apr 12 at 6:24


















          11














          If you modify your file to have



          showoutput
          (ℕ mathbbN BbbN symbbN showlists)


          Then you get



          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          ### horizontal mode entered at line 20


          Four identical N, same font and same math class (mathord).



          I would say use if you like Unicode input and symbbN if you prefer ASCII TeX command markup. So they are the preferred forms, but as they are all the same thing it doesn't matter much which you use.



          Of course other font setups may make things differ. In general symxx will give you characters from the same font using the math alphabet ranges, whereas mathxx might do that or might (as in classic tex) use a different font.






          share|improve this answer

























          • I'd use mathbbm of the bbm package for all blackboard bold letters: clean, nice, slender. Blackboard bold is nowhere bold on the blackboard, this is why we simply double some of the lines. mathbb N makes the slanted line bold.

            – Máté Wierdl
            Apr 16 at 20:32











          • @MátéWierdl bbm font is OK if it fits with the overall font design but if you use unicode-math symbb then the blackboard bold N comes from the same font as the normal N and is chosen by the font designer to match.

            – David Carlisle
            Apr 16 at 21:44











          • I see, @DavidCarlisle. How do I access symbb in pdflatex?

            – Máté Wierdl
            2 days ago











          • @MátéWierdl symbb is unicode-math so just xetex or luatex, the whole point of symxx commands is that they access the math alphabets from the same font, position 8469 in the case of ℕ that can not mean anything in pdftex which has at most 256 characters per font, and most math fonts only have 128 characters

            – David Carlisle
            2 days ago


















          6














          tl;dr



          It's completely the same.



          Why do those four inputs produce the same output?



          In unicode-math-table.tex we find



          UnicodeMathSymbol"02115BbbNmathalpha/bbb n, open face n


          Every Unicode code point relevant for math has a name, so that unicode-math can do, in this case, the equivalent of



          Umathchardef`ℕ = "7 "0 "02115


          (the second number could change in case range=bb is used to select a different font for these characters).



          If you add showmathbb to your sample TeX file (after begindocument), you'll get



          > mathbb=long macro:
          ->symbb .


          This almost answers your question. At least we know that



          1. typing or BbbN is the same

          2. typing mathbbN or symbbN is the same

          It only remains to discover what's the relationship between the two cases above. Simple: symbbN does BbbN. Not really by chaining N to Bbb, but something like that (it's more complicated because one can use range=bb to use a different font for blackboard bold letters).



          Now we know that typing



          $ℕ BbbN mathbbN symbbN$


          is exactly the same. The alias name mathbb for symbb is for backwards compatibility with older code.



          Some explanation is in order. unicode-math used to have just mathXX commands. However, it was realized that distinguishing between mathXX and symXX is necessary. The first form is about words used in math, the second form for single characters (and doesn't enforce ligatures if used for more characters in a row); these forms can point to different fonts. Typically, for instance, mathbf will use the boldface text font, whereas symbfx will use mbfx, pointing to U+1D431 in the math font.



          While the distinction is necessary for boldface, in the case of blackboard bold there is no usage of it as a text font, so no distinction is made between mathbb and symbb, by default. You (or a package) might redefine mathbb to do something else (not that I recommend it).



          What's the preferred form?



          I'd avoid BbbN and probably prefer symbb for newer documents, unless it's possible to directly type in .






          share|improve this answer

























          • Instead of UnicodeMathSymbol"1D55FBbbnmathalphamathematical double-struck small n, do you probably mean UnicodeMathSymbol"02115BbbNmathalpha/bbb n, open face n?

            – user49915
            Apr 12 at 13:24







          • 1





            @user49915 Yes, indeed. Let me fix it: I copied the first match, but didn't notice the case.

            – egreg
            Apr 12 at 13:26











          Your Answer








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          3 Answers
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          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

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          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          13














          The difference is mainly historical. BbbN was created for the original amsfonts, pre-LaTeX; it should be considered obsolete now.
          (Oops! @egreg points out in a comment that BbbN has been defined for unicode-math, so I was thinking of BbbN. That surely should be considered obsolete.)
          The original LaTeX equivalent is mathbbN, and should still be reliable.



          symbbN was defined for fonts developed after the blackboard bold alphabet was added to Unicode.



          The symbol itself (which I can't represent because it's not available on the aged laptop I'm using) depends on having a utf-8 capable input device, and is not available for pdflatex, which is still limited to 8-bit input.



          All forms are equivalent, and the one you use depends on which flavor of LaTeX you're using. There may also be some restrictions associated with the publisher, if you're submitting your document for publication.



          This may not give an unambiguous answer to your question, but it should give you some idea of how the development of the blackboard bold fonts and their support affects the decision of which should be used in what circumstances.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 2





            BbbN is a specific command in unicode-math. The command Bbb (with an argument) is obsolete.

            – egreg
            Apr 12 at 6:24















          13














          The difference is mainly historical. BbbN was created for the original amsfonts, pre-LaTeX; it should be considered obsolete now.
          (Oops! @egreg points out in a comment that BbbN has been defined for unicode-math, so I was thinking of BbbN. That surely should be considered obsolete.)
          The original LaTeX equivalent is mathbbN, and should still be reliable.



          symbbN was defined for fonts developed after the blackboard bold alphabet was added to Unicode.



          The symbol itself (which I can't represent because it's not available on the aged laptop I'm using) depends on having a utf-8 capable input device, and is not available for pdflatex, which is still limited to 8-bit input.



          All forms are equivalent, and the one you use depends on which flavor of LaTeX you're using. There may also be some restrictions associated with the publisher, if you're submitting your document for publication.



          This may not give an unambiguous answer to your question, but it should give you some idea of how the development of the blackboard bold fonts and their support affects the decision of which should be used in what circumstances.






          share|improve this answer




















          • 2





            BbbN is a specific command in unicode-math. The command Bbb (with an argument) is obsolete.

            – egreg
            Apr 12 at 6:24













          13












          13








          13







          The difference is mainly historical. BbbN was created for the original amsfonts, pre-LaTeX; it should be considered obsolete now.
          (Oops! @egreg points out in a comment that BbbN has been defined for unicode-math, so I was thinking of BbbN. That surely should be considered obsolete.)
          The original LaTeX equivalent is mathbbN, and should still be reliable.



          symbbN was defined for fonts developed after the blackboard bold alphabet was added to Unicode.



          The symbol itself (which I can't represent because it's not available on the aged laptop I'm using) depends on having a utf-8 capable input device, and is not available for pdflatex, which is still limited to 8-bit input.



          All forms are equivalent, and the one you use depends on which flavor of LaTeX you're using. There may also be some restrictions associated with the publisher, if you're submitting your document for publication.



          This may not give an unambiguous answer to your question, but it should give you some idea of how the development of the blackboard bold fonts and their support affects the decision of which should be used in what circumstances.






          share|improve this answer















          The difference is mainly historical. BbbN was created for the original amsfonts, pre-LaTeX; it should be considered obsolete now.
          (Oops! @egreg points out in a comment that BbbN has been defined for unicode-math, so I was thinking of BbbN. That surely should be considered obsolete.)
          The original LaTeX equivalent is mathbbN, and should still be reliable.



          symbbN was defined for fonts developed after the blackboard bold alphabet was added to Unicode.



          The symbol itself (which I can't represent because it's not available on the aged laptop I'm using) depends on having a utf-8 capable input device, and is not available for pdflatex, which is still limited to 8-bit input.



          All forms are equivalent, and the one you use depends on which flavor of LaTeX you're using. There may also be some restrictions associated with the publisher, if you're submitting your document for publication.



          This may not give an unambiguous answer to your question, but it should give you some idea of how the development of the blackboard bold fonts and their support affects the decision of which should be used in what circumstances.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Apr 12 at 17:37

























          answered Apr 12 at 0:15









          barbara beetonbarbara beeton

          70.3k9159382




          70.3k9159382







          • 2





            BbbN is a specific command in unicode-math. The command Bbb (with an argument) is obsolete.

            – egreg
            Apr 12 at 6:24












          • 2





            BbbN is a specific command in unicode-math. The command Bbb (with an argument) is obsolete.

            – egreg
            Apr 12 at 6:24







          2




          2





          BbbN is a specific command in unicode-math. The command Bbb (with an argument) is obsolete.

          – egreg
          Apr 12 at 6:24





          BbbN is a specific command in unicode-math. The command Bbb (with an argument) is obsolete.

          – egreg
          Apr 12 at 6:24











          11














          If you modify your file to have



          showoutput
          (ℕ mathbbN BbbN symbbN showlists)


          Then you get



          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          ### horizontal mode entered at line 20


          Four identical N, same font and same math class (mathord).



          I would say use if you like Unicode input and symbbN if you prefer ASCII TeX command markup. So they are the preferred forms, but as they are all the same thing it doesn't matter much which you use.



          Of course other font setups may make things differ. In general symxx will give you characters from the same font using the math alphabet ranges, whereas mathxx might do that or might (as in classic tex) use a different font.






          share|improve this answer

























          • I'd use mathbbm of the bbm package for all blackboard bold letters: clean, nice, slender. Blackboard bold is nowhere bold on the blackboard, this is why we simply double some of the lines. mathbb N makes the slanted line bold.

            – Máté Wierdl
            Apr 16 at 20:32











          • @MátéWierdl bbm font is OK if it fits with the overall font design but if you use unicode-math symbb then the blackboard bold N comes from the same font as the normal N and is chosen by the font designer to match.

            – David Carlisle
            Apr 16 at 21:44











          • I see, @DavidCarlisle. How do I access symbb in pdflatex?

            – Máté Wierdl
            2 days ago











          • @MátéWierdl symbb is unicode-math so just xetex or luatex, the whole point of symxx commands is that they access the math alphabets from the same font, position 8469 in the case of ℕ that can not mean anything in pdftex which has at most 256 characters per font, and most math fonts only have 128 characters

            – David Carlisle
            2 days ago















          11














          If you modify your file to have



          showoutput
          (ℕ mathbbN BbbN symbbN showlists)


          Then you get



          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          ### horizontal mode entered at line 20


          Four identical N, same font and same math class (mathord).



          I would say use if you like Unicode input and symbbN if you prefer ASCII TeX command markup. So they are the preferred forms, but as they are all the same thing it doesn't matter much which you use.



          Of course other font setups may make things differ. In general symxx will give you characters from the same font using the math alphabet ranges, whereas mathxx might do that or might (as in classic tex) use a different font.






          share|improve this answer

























          • I'd use mathbbm of the bbm package for all blackboard bold letters: clean, nice, slender. Blackboard bold is nowhere bold on the blackboard, this is why we simply double some of the lines. mathbb N makes the slanted line bold.

            – Máté Wierdl
            Apr 16 at 20:32











          • @MátéWierdl bbm font is OK if it fits with the overall font design but if you use unicode-math symbb then the blackboard bold N comes from the same font as the normal N and is chosen by the font designer to match.

            – David Carlisle
            Apr 16 at 21:44











          • I see, @DavidCarlisle. How do I access symbb in pdflatex?

            – Máté Wierdl
            2 days ago











          • @MátéWierdl symbb is unicode-math so just xetex or luatex, the whole point of symxx commands is that they access the math alphabets from the same font, position 8469 in the case of ℕ that can not mean anything in pdftex which has at most 256 characters per font, and most math fonts only have 128 characters

            – David Carlisle
            2 days ago













          11












          11








          11







          If you modify your file to have



          showoutput
          (ℕ mathbbN BbbN symbbN showlists)


          Then you get



          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          ### horizontal mode entered at line 20


          Four identical N, same font and same math class (mathord).



          I would say use if you like Unicode input and symbbN if you prefer ASCII TeX command markup. So they are the preferred forms, but as they are all the same thing it doesn't matter much which you use.



          Of course other font setups may make things differ. In general symxx will give you characters from the same font using the math alphabet ranges, whereas mathxx might do that or might (as in classic tex) use a different font.






          share|improve this answer















          If you modify your file to have



          showoutput
          (ℕ mathbbN BbbN symbbN showlists)


          Then you get



          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          mathord
          .fam0 ℕ
          ### horizontal mode entered at line 20


          Four identical N, same font and same math class (mathord).



          I would say use if you like Unicode input and symbbN if you prefer ASCII TeX command markup. So they are the preferred forms, but as they are all the same thing it doesn't matter much which you use.



          Of course other font setups may make things differ. In general symxx will give you characters from the same font using the math alphabet ranges, whereas mathxx might do that or might (as in classic tex) use a different font.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Apr 15 at 6:53









          Henri Menke

          77.7k8171285




          77.7k8171285










          answered Apr 12 at 0:14









          David CarlisleDavid Carlisle

          500k4111461896




          500k4111461896












          • I'd use mathbbm of the bbm package for all blackboard bold letters: clean, nice, slender. Blackboard bold is nowhere bold on the blackboard, this is why we simply double some of the lines. mathbb N makes the slanted line bold.

            – Máté Wierdl
            Apr 16 at 20:32











          • @MátéWierdl bbm font is OK if it fits with the overall font design but if you use unicode-math symbb then the blackboard bold N comes from the same font as the normal N and is chosen by the font designer to match.

            – David Carlisle
            Apr 16 at 21:44











          • I see, @DavidCarlisle. How do I access symbb in pdflatex?

            – Máté Wierdl
            2 days ago











          • @MátéWierdl symbb is unicode-math so just xetex or luatex, the whole point of symxx commands is that they access the math alphabets from the same font, position 8469 in the case of ℕ that can not mean anything in pdftex which has at most 256 characters per font, and most math fonts only have 128 characters

            – David Carlisle
            2 days ago

















          • I'd use mathbbm of the bbm package for all blackboard bold letters: clean, nice, slender. Blackboard bold is nowhere bold on the blackboard, this is why we simply double some of the lines. mathbb N makes the slanted line bold.

            – Máté Wierdl
            Apr 16 at 20:32











          • @MátéWierdl bbm font is OK if it fits with the overall font design but if you use unicode-math symbb then the blackboard bold N comes from the same font as the normal N and is chosen by the font designer to match.

            – David Carlisle
            Apr 16 at 21:44











          • I see, @DavidCarlisle. How do I access symbb in pdflatex?

            – Máté Wierdl
            2 days ago











          • @MátéWierdl symbb is unicode-math so just xetex or luatex, the whole point of symxx commands is that they access the math alphabets from the same font, position 8469 in the case of ℕ that can not mean anything in pdftex which has at most 256 characters per font, and most math fonts only have 128 characters

            – David Carlisle
            2 days ago
















          I'd use mathbbm of the bbm package for all blackboard bold letters: clean, nice, slender. Blackboard bold is nowhere bold on the blackboard, this is why we simply double some of the lines. mathbb N makes the slanted line bold.

          – Máté Wierdl
          Apr 16 at 20:32





          I'd use mathbbm of the bbm package for all blackboard bold letters: clean, nice, slender. Blackboard bold is nowhere bold on the blackboard, this is why we simply double some of the lines. mathbb N makes the slanted line bold.

          – Máté Wierdl
          Apr 16 at 20:32













          @MátéWierdl bbm font is OK if it fits with the overall font design but if you use unicode-math symbb then the blackboard bold N comes from the same font as the normal N and is chosen by the font designer to match.

          – David Carlisle
          Apr 16 at 21:44





          @MátéWierdl bbm font is OK if it fits with the overall font design but if you use unicode-math symbb then the blackboard bold N comes from the same font as the normal N and is chosen by the font designer to match.

          – David Carlisle
          Apr 16 at 21:44













          I see, @DavidCarlisle. How do I access symbb in pdflatex?

          – Máté Wierdl
          2 days ago





          I see, @DavidCarlisle. How do I access symbb in pdflatex?

          – Máté Wierdl
          2 days ago













          @MátéWierdl symbb is unicode-math so just xetex or luatex, the whole point of symxx commands is that they access the math alphabets from the same font, position 8469 in the case of ℕ that can not mean anything in pdftex which has at most 256 characters per font, and most math fonts only have 128 characters

          – David Carlisle
          2 days ago





          @MátéWierdl symbb is unicode-math so just xetex or luatex, the whole point of symxx commands is that they access the math alphabets from the same font, position 8469 in the case of ℕ that can not mean anything in pdftex which has at most 256 characters per font, and most math fonts only have 128 characters

          – David Carlisle
          2 days ago











          6














          tl;dr



          It's completely the same.



          Why do those four inputs produce the same output?



          In unicode-math-table.tex we find



          UnicodeMathSymbol"02115BbbNmathalpha/bbb n, open face n


          Every Unicode code point relevant for math has a name, so that unicode-math can do, in this case, the equivalent of



          Umathchardef`ℕ = "7 "0 "02115


          (the second number could change in case range=bb is used to select a different font for these characters).



          If you add showmathbb to your sample TeX file (after begindocument), you'll get



          > mathbb=long macro:
          ->symbb .


          This almost answers your question. At least we know that



          1. typing or BbbN is the same

          2. typing mathbbN or symbbN is the same

          It only remains to discover what's the relationship between the two cases above. Simple: symbbN does BbbN. Not really by chaining N to Bbb, but something like that (it's more complicated because one can use range=bb to use a different font for blackboard bold letters).



          Now we know that typing



          $ℕ BbbN mathbbN symbbN$


          is exactly the same. The alias name mathbb for symbb is for backwards compatibility with older code.



          Some explanation is in order. unicode-math used to have just mathXX commands. However, it was realized that distinguishing between mathXX and symXX is necessary. The first form is about words used in math, the second form for single characters (and doesn't enforce ligatures if used for more characters in a row); these forms can point to different fonts. Typically, for instance, mathbf will use the boldface text font, whereas symbfx will use mbfx, pointing to U+1D431 in the math font.



          While the distinction is necessary for boldface, in the case of blackboard bold there is no usage of it as a text font, so no distinction is made between mathbb and symbb, by default. You (or a package) might redefine mathbb to do something else (not that I recommend it).



          What's the preferred form?



          I'd avoid BbbN and probably prefer symbb for newer documents, unless it's possible to directly type in .






          share|improve this answer

























          • Instead of UnicodeMathSymbol"1D55FBbbnmathalphamathematical double-struck small n, do you probably mean UnicodeMathSymbol"02115BbbNmathalpha/bbb n, open face n?

            – user49915
            Apr 12 at 13:24







          • 1





            @user49915 Yes, indeed. Let me fix it: I copied the first match, but didn't notice the case.

            – egreg
            Apr 12 at 13:26















          6














          tl;dr



          It's completely the same.



          Why do those four inputs produce the same output?



          In unicode-math-table.tex we find



          UnicodeMathSymbol"02115BbbNmathalpha/bbb n, open face n


          Every Unicode code point relevant for math has a name, so that unicode-math can do, in this case, the equivalent of



          Umathchardef`ℕ = "7 "0 "02115


          (the second number could change in case range=bb is used to select a different font for these characters).



          If you add showmathbb to your sample TeX file (after begindocument), you'll get



          > mathbb=long macro:
          ->symbb .


          This almost answers your question. At least we know that



          1. typing or BbbN is the same

          2. typing mathbbN or symbbN is the same

          It only remains to discover what's the relationship between the two cases above. Simple: symbbN does BbbN. Not really by chaining N to Bbb, but something like that (it's more complicated because one can use range=bb to use a different font for blackboard bold letters).



          Now we know that typing



          $ℕ BbbN mathbbN symbbN$


          is exactly the same. The alias name mathbb for symbb is for backwards compatibility with older code.



          Some explanation is in order. unicode-math used to have just mathXX commands. However, it was realized that distinguishing between mathXX and symXX is necessary. The first form is about words used in math, the second form for single characters (and doesn't enforce ligatures if used for more characters in a row); these forms can point to different fonts. Typically, for instance, mathbf will use the boldface text font, whereas symbfx will use mbfx, pointing to U+1D431 in the math font.



          While the distinction is necessary for boldface, in the case of blackboard bold there is no usage of it as a text font, so no distinction is made between mathbb and symbb, by default. You (or a package) might redefine mathbb to do something else (not that I recommend it).



          What's the preferred form?



          I'd avoid BbbN and probably prefer symbb for newer documents, unless it's possible to directly type in .






          share|improve this answer

























          • Instead of UnicodeMathSymbol"1D55FBbbnmathalphamathematical double-struck small n, do you probably mean UnicodeMathSymbol"02115BbbNmathalpha/bbb n, open face n?

            – user49915
            Apr 12 at 13:24







          • 1





            @user49915 Yes, indeed. Let me fix it: I copied the first match, but didn't notice the case.

            – egreg
            Apr 12 at 13:26













          6












          6








          6







          tl;dr



          It's completely the same.



          Why do those four inputs produce the same output?



          In unicode-math-table.tex we find



          UnicodeMathSymbol"02115BbbNmathalpha/bbb n, open face n


          Every Unicode code point relevant for math has a name, so that unicode-math can do, in this case, the equivalent of



          Umathchardef`ℕ = "7 "0 "02115


          (the second number could change in case range=bb is used to select a different font for these characters).



          If you add showmathbb to your sample TeX file (after begindocument), you'll get



          > mathbb=long macro:
          ->symbb .


          This almost answers your question. At least we know that



          1. typing or BbbN is the same

          2. typing mathbbN or symbbN is the same

          It only remains to discover what's the relationship between the two cases above. Simple: symbbN does BbbN. Not really by chaining N to Bbb, but something like that (it's more complicated because one can use range=bb to use a different font for blackboard bold letters).



          Now we know that typing



          $ℕ BbbN mathbbN symbbN$


          is exactly the same. The alias name mathbb for symbb is for backwards compatibility with older code.



          Some explanation is in order. unicode-math used to have just mathXX commands. However, it was realized that distinguishing between mathXX and symXX is necessary. The first form is about words used in math, the second form for single characters (and doesn't enforce ligatures if used for more characters in a row); these forms can point to different fonts. Typically, for instance, mathbf will use the boldface text font, whereas symbfx will use mbfx, pointing to U+1D431 in the math font.



          While the distinction is necessary for boldface, in the case of blackboard bold there is no usage of it as a text font, so no distinction is made between mathbb and symbb, by default. You (or a package) might redefine mathbb to do something else (not that I recommend it).



          What's the preferred form?



          I'd avoid BbbN and probably prefer symbb for newer documents, unless it's possible to directly type in .






          share|improve this answer















          tl;dr



          It's completely the same.



          Why do those four inputs produce the same output?



          In unicode-math-table.tex we find



          UnicodeMathSymbol"02115BbbNmathalpha/bbb n, open face n


          Every Unicode code point relevant for math has a name, so that unicode-math can do, in this case, the equivalent of



          Umathchardef`ℕ = "7 "0 "02115


          (the second number could change in case range=bb is used to select a different font for these characters).



          If you add showmathbb to your sample TeX file (after begindocument), you'll get



          > mathbb=long macro:
          ->symbb .


          This almost answers your question. At least we know that



          1. typing or BbbN is the same

          2. typing mathbbN or symbbN is the same

          It only remains to discover what's the relationship between the two cases above. Simple: symbbN does BbbN. Not really by chaining N to Bbb, but something like that (it's more complicated because one can use range=bb to use a different font for blackboard bold letters).



          Now we know that typing



          $ℕ BbbN mathbbN symbbN$


          is exactly the same. The alias name mathbb for symbb is for backwards compatibility with older code.



          Some explanation is in order. unicode-math used to have just mathXX commands. However, it was realized that distinguishing between mathXX and symXX is necessary. The first form is about words used in math, the second form for single characters (and doesn't enforce ligatures if used for more characters in a row); these forms can point to different fonts. Typically, for instance, mathbf will use the boldface text font, whereas symbfx will use mbfx, pointing to U+1D431 in the math font.



          While the distinction is necessary for boldface, in the case of blackboard bold there is no usage of it as a text font, so no distinction is made between mathbb and symbb, by default. You (or a package) might redefine mathbb to do something else (not that I recommend it).



          What's the preferred form?



          I'd avoid BbbN and probably prefer symbb for newer documents, unless it's possible to directly type in .







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Apr 12 at 13:27

























          answered Apr 12 at 7:17









          egregegreg

          735k8919343260




          735k8919343260












          • Instead of UnicodeMathSymbol"1D55FBbbnmathalphamathematical double-struck small n, do you probably mean UnicodeMathSymbol"02115BbbNmathalpha/bbb n, open face n?

            – user49915
            Apr 12 at 13:24







          • 1





            @user49915 Yes, indeed. Let me fix it: I copied the first match, but didn't notice the case.

            – egreg
            Apr 12 at 13:26

















          • Instead of UnicodeMathSymbol"1D55FBbbnmathalphamathematical double-struck small n, do you probably mean UnicodeMathSymbol"02115BbbNmathalpha/bbb n, open face n?

            – user49915
            Apr 12 at 13:24







          • 1





            @user49915 Yes, indeed. Let me fix it: I copied the first match, but didn't notice the case.

            – egreg
            Apr 12 at 13:26
















          Instead of UnicodeMathSymbol"1D55FBbbnmathalphamathematical double-struck small n, do you probably mean UnicodeMathSymbol"02115BbbNmathalpha/bbb n, open face n?

          – user49915
          Apr 12 at 13:24






          Instead of UnicodeMathSymbol"1D55FBbbnmathalphamathematical double-struck small n, do you probably mean UnicodeMathSymbol"02115BbbNmathalpha/bbb n, open face n?

          – user49915
          Apr 12 at 13:24





          1




          1





          @user49915 Yes, indeed. Let me fix it: I copied the first match, but didn't notice the case.

          – egreg
          Apr 12 at 13:26





          @user49915 Yes, indeed. Let me fix it: I copied the first match, but didn't notice the case.

          – egreg
          Apr 12 at 13:26

















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